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06-09-2015, 08:00 PM   #736
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QuoteOriginally posted by stillshot2 Quote
I agree that it is a big deal! It brings more functionality to multiple Pentax cameras, including the great 645z. To some people, it will be worth the price.
Canon fans are expecting the new 50MP Canon to take sales away from the 645Z. Their reasons have nothing to do with flash and everything to do with availability of lenses and other areas of support. Do they know something we don't know about true weaknesses of the 645Z when viewed by the average professional with the money needed to buy this kind of thing?

BTW - now we're onto page 50 in the three plus daze of this thread.

06-09-2015, 08:01 PM - 1 Like   #737
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I am so disappointed...I was sure it was a dedicated Squirrel Shooting Camera. I guess Otis can be wrong after all?

Regards!
06-09-2015, 08:03 PM   #738
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I am so disappointed...I was sure it was a dedicated Squirrel Shooting Camera. I guess Otis can be wrong after all?

Regards!
It has a shotgun built into it?

Would that camera be legal in gun-control states?
06-09-2015, 09:20 PM - 1 Like   #739
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
But . . . . . But . . . . . . America is the center of the Universe!!!!
Of course..I should know better

---------- Post added 06-10-15 at 06:21 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Dave L Quote
I agree that the announcement seems to have very little or nothing to do with Ricoh, it's just a third party development, albeit good news for the Pentax brand.
That is true. All things that makes it better to be a pentaxian, are welcome

06-09-2015, 09:53 PM   #740
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Of course..I should know better

---------- Post added 06-10-15 at 06:21 AM ----------



That is true. All things that makes it better to be a pentaxian, are welcome
Next up, hot shoe mounted cappuccino machines!
06-09-2015, 10:46 PM   #741
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fat Albert Quote
A RISING TIDE LIFTS ALL BOATS

Except the ones with big holes in them.


But in essence you make a good point. I am unlikely to ever buy such equipment for my purposes. Maybe if a super model invited me to do some studio shots for her portfolio .... which is unlikely as I don't have a studio anyway. But how many threads have we seen that ask "which professionals use Pentax"? If link ups like this bring more professionals, how can it be bad for the rest of us?
06-10-2015, 12:31 AM   #742
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
There is one particular scenario -- when you need to record and freeze subject areas illuminated by ambient light and that ambient illumination is considered important -- where ND filters cannot help
Ok, then we reach agreement.
I consider the above scenario a main use case.

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Here, I'm assuming that all strobes within the same team (= group) have to have the same power. If they are allowed to have different power levels then my concern does not apply
Your assumption is wrong. Strobes within a group are all different power and ALL allows them all to shift exposure in +-0.1 EV steps, SINGLE to shift a single strobe.

Different groups are meant to separate different teams with their own set of strobes and remotes -- happening to work in the same location.

A second use case for groups/teams is group D: If you trigger twice / burst within 1/4s or so, the second time group D is fired instead, assuming you are on a different group than D. This allows for two separate foreground and background illuminated images shot at one, enabling automated backgound replacement. Both Hensel (Freemask) and PrioLite (Hotmask) offer that feature, although Hensel needs a special trigger.

As Class A mentioned correctly, that type of photography does not require a HotSync flash.
06-10-2015, 12:44 AM   #743
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Ok, then we reach agreement.


QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Your assumption is wrong. Strobes within a group are all different power and ALL allows them all to shift exposure in +-0.1 EV steps, SINGLE to shift a single strobe.
OK, great, that makes a lot more sense.

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Different groups are meant to separate different teams with their own set of strobes and remotes -- happening to work in the same location.
So a "team" would conventionally be referred to as a "channel", correct? (Ignoring the underlying technical meaning of "radio channel".)
However, the "channel" interpretation clashes somewhat with the "group D" masking feature you describe later.

With this new understanding, one problem remains -- one has only one power display for up to nine lights -- and a new problem is created: There does not seem to be a way to group a number of lights together, i.e., synchronise their power settings as one can do in a traditional radio trigger "group". Granted, given the power of the PrioLite strobes, there will be much less need to use two or more lights in "tandem".

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
A second use case for groups/teams is group D: If you trigger twice / burst within 1/4s or so, the second time group D is fired instead, assuming you are on a different group than D. This allows for two separate foreground and background illuminated images shot at one, enabling automated backgound replacement.
The Cactus V6 also supports this use case through the "group sequence" feature where one may alternate between groups AB and CD (useful for auto-masking, for instance) or cycle through A,B,C, D (useful to achieve insanely fast recycle times by using four lights instead of one, for instance). This group alternation/sequencing is optional, which makes more sense to me than assuming the desire to use alternate group triggering when using two fast triggers in succession.

P.S.: I tried to find out about how the PrioLite strobes work (in particular the remote control), but couldn't find respective information on their website (English or German). Bit of a shame.


Last edited by Class A; 06-10-2015 at 01:42 AM.
06-10-2015, 12:45 AM   #744
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QuoteOriginally posted by PJ1 Quote
Maybe if a super model invited me to do some studio shots for her portfolio .... which is unlikely as I don't have a studio anyway.
I have a little studio. If the said supermodel does invite you, could you pass her on to me, please?
06-10-2015, 01:58 AM - 2 Likes   #745
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I think one point everybody is missing is that we have a pro shooter, Alex Munoz who is happy to go the yards to help create solutions that will bring our systems to the forefront.

It's great news and good on him for having a go and being a good ambassador.
06-10-2015, 02:03 AM   #746
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
(meaning they would have gotten a lot of smaller RF60 to get the same amount of power, not spending more money in the process, though
Not spending more money? Let's count it then: 1000Ws@1/200s means the same exposure as 500Ws@1/400s, 250Ws@1/800s....-> 62.5Ws@1/3200s, that is only slightly less light than an average "big" speedlight at full power, but to get similar action stopping capability you need to turn it down to 1/4-1/8 (t.1=1/2500-1/5000s), so to get the same amount of light, as with a 1000Ws Priolite synced at 1/3200s you'll need 4-8 speedlights - right? Let's say you'll need 6 of them, that means ~$190 x 6 -> $1140 - it seems you're right, it's cheaper.
But that's only one side of the story, we need to look at the ambient exposure - to get 1/3200s "equivalent" ambient exposure at 1/200s, you need to close down the aperture and/or use ND and then compensate with the amount of light that are coming from your strobes, so basically adding more speedlights... How many? 96 in case of this 4EV compensation... $190 x 96 -> $18.240...

---------- Post added 06-10-2015 at 04:24 AM ----------

Alright, RF60 can be fired at full power and synced just like Priolite HS, but that means like let's say 13 of them to get 1000Ws equivalent at any shutter speed... $190 x 13 -> $2470...
06-10-2015, 03:00 AM   #747
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
So a "team" would conventionally be referred to as a "channel", correct? (Ignoring the underlying technical meaning of "radio channel".)
Depending on your convention, correct. I much prefer the team/ID terminology though. Overall, I found the PrioLites intuitive and feeling like solid tools. While my SB910 really is not intuitive at all (even if using Channels ...), slow to change settings for and feeling like a toy.

I guess it isn't called channel because the implementation isn't by frequency or alike. E.g., if you have two RC acting in the same team, the first one discovered works as expected and the second one becomes offline until you switch the first RC off. They don't interfere with each other, i.e., it is a software protocol, more like TCP/IP headers. That may be a problem in a workshop where each participant has its own remote trigger (better then to use a cheap 3.5mm radio trigger plugged into the strobes).

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
With this new understanding, one problem remains -- one has only one power display for up to nine lights -- and a new problem is created: There does not seem to be a way to group a number of lights together, i.e., synchronise their power settings as one can do in a traditional radio trigger "group".
The power display shows amount of shift in ALL and current power (EV) in SINGLE for the selected ID. It is bidirectional, i.e., if you turn the knob on the flash itself, the display will adjust on the RC too.

To see all flash powers, you'll cycle through all IDs (where you can individually change other settings too, like modelling light or flash confirmation, offline etc.). In practive though, you rather go directly to the ID you want to change anyway, based on the modelling light or test shot.

The RC can't display all power levels at once; because there are up to nine strobes to be controlled ...

Btw, strobes are not normally linked together because they cannot share a single light former (with its single speed ring). If you need more power, you'll go to a stronger strobe, not more of them. Needing more than 1000Ws heads requires a very large studio though ...
QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I tried to find out about how the PrioLite strobes work (in particular the remote control), but couldn't find respective information on their website (English or German). Bit of a shame.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12078174/priolite/PDF/Priolite-Fernbedienung.pdf
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12078174/priolite/PDF/Priolite-Fernbedienung-RC-HS.pdf
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12078174/priolite/PDF/Priolite-Quick-Mask.pdf

The user guides ship with the products or on demand, Priolite removed the downloads from their site. The above links are from a dealer's site, Downloads - PRIOLITE

Last edited by falconeye; 06-10-2015 at 03:25 AM.
06-10-2015, 03:24 AM   #748
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12078174/priolite/PDF/Priolite-Fernbedienung-RC-HS.pdf
So the proper sync time for the HSS is just a calculated delay and the regular sync signal is taken from the remote control input instead of the middle pin (or TTL pins)? The only Priolite "work" to adapt it for Pentax was to calculate the delay and put it in a trigger memory - right?
06-10-2015, 04:20 AM   #749
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QuoteOriginally posted by jaad75 Quote
Alright, RF60 can be fired at full power and synced just like Priolite HS, but that means like let's say 13 of them to get 1000Ws equivalent at any shutter speed... $190 x 13 -> $2470...
I was basing my comparison on the PrioLite MBX 500 HS which should be matched by ~8 RF60. One RF60 is $175 (not $190) and hence the RF60 assembly would be cheaper, but a nightmare to deal with. Just think of 8 x 4 AA batteries to charge before each shoot. The PrioLite MBX 1000 HS price is only slightly higher than the PrioLite MBX 500 HS price so the RF60 cannot compete on price anymore either.
06-10-2015, 04:41 AM   #750
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
The power display shows amount of shift in ALL and current power (EV) in SINGLE for the selected ID. It is bidirectional, i.e., if you turn the knob on the flash itself, the display will adjust on the RC too.
Yes, I figured as much from watching some more youtube videos.

I find this approach workable, but prefer to see all four group power levels on a V6 display simultaneously. Having more than four different levels available would be nice. I guess two banks of four levels would be nice, i.e., the ability to toggle the display between the first four and the second four levels.

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
To see all flash powers, you'll cycle through all IDs (where you can individually change other settings too, like modelling light or flash confirmation, offline etc.).
Yes, makes sense.

Seeing all levels when making a global adjustment (e.g., increasing all light levels by 1 stop) is preferred, though, as you can immediately see whether one of the lights is maxed out, i.e., you lose the formerly established lighting ratios as one light cannot increase its level anymore while the others still can. Also, with one glance, you can see whether the ratios are established as you desire them, as opposed to having to cycle through individual levels and memorise the others in your head.

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Btw, strobes are not normally linked together because they cannot share a single light former (with its single speed ring).
For sure, but you can use two light modifiers (each with their own strobe) in tandem to provide a bigger modifier, e.g., for car or group photography. As I said, the need for groups is diminished with powerful strobes, but I don't think it is completely eliminated. Being able to abstract two or more strobes into one big one can be helpful and speed up adjustments.

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
The user guides ship with the products or on demand, Priolite removed the downloads from their site.
Thanks for the links.

Do you have any idea why PrioLite took down the manuals?
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