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06-21-2015, 03:47 AM - 2 Likes   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by drypenn Quote
I agree and understand the rationale for the HUMONGOUS size, but in reality, who really shoots at f/1.4 or f/1.2 at the very least 20% of the time (especially outside)? (That being said, I muss confess guilty of using my 50/1.2 at 1.2 maybe 3 or 4 out of ten times .)
How can you do that with such low sharpness the lense provide at f/1.2 ???? I'am sure that if I print at 20x30" and I stare at the result carefully I will see lack of sharpness in the tiny bit of the picture that are perfectly in focus ! And if I decide to shoot a wall at f/1.2 with it, I'am sure I'll be disapointed by the corner performance !

You should not use appertures under f/5.6 if your lense isn't at least 800g and 10cm long !

06-21-2015, 04:34 AM   #62
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Lately Sigma lenses are really big, but on the other hand many fast FF lenses are really big. If you look at 70-200mm f2.8 lenses, or 135mm f2 lenses.. I have an old Yashika SLR, which has some big lenses as well (C/Y mount)
We might be just spoiled because Pentax makes lenses that are so compact, but still sharp, with beautiful contrasts and colours.
06-21-2015, 04:37 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
How can you do that with such low sharpness the lense provide at f/1.2 ???? I'am sure that if I print at 20x30" and I stare at the result carefully I will see lack of sharpness in the tiny bit of the picture that are perfectly in focus ! And if I decide to shoot a wall at f/1.2 with it, I'am sure I'll be disapointed by the corner performance !

You should not use appertures under f/5.6 if your lense isn't at least 800g and 10cm long !


None (I think) of any my humble collection weighs more than 800g, expecially that 15mm. How can I have my starburst at f4?
06-21-2015, 10:27 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Too bad Sigma only weather seals their Sports line (which consists of two long zooms). I think I'd rather have Sigma glass than Pentax.. if it was sealed.
Sigma has stated that their Art lenses are constructed in a way that is highly averse to "weather" ingress, and I've used my older Sigma EX lenses in rain, snow, and other conditions with no bad effect. Having said that, the lack of even a weather gasket on the mount is a bit embarrassing, especially considering that Nikon has begun putting that feature on even their cheapest new f/1.8 G primes...

---------- Post added 06-21-15 at 10:31 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
When you see what the leica range finder primes are able to do and their size (smaller than ltd), the only reason for being big seems to be more affordable rather than providing higher quality.
Not entirely true, depending on how much of a stickler you are for extreme, extreme corner sharpness. The one downfall of the tiny Leica lenses is often that, the wider and faster you go, the more you wind up with coma, field curvature, and general softness in the extreme corners.

These ginormous lenses that we're seeing recently, such as the Tamron 15-30 2.8 that also weighs in at over 2 lbs, is that they have shockingly flat field curvature, almost no coma, and are literally almost as sharp in the corners as they are dead-center.

That is, shooting wide open. So if you're the type of photographer who shoots stopped down a few stops anyways, or who doesn't need absurdly high-performance corners, then yeah, these lenses are going to be COMPLETE overkill lol...

---------- Post added 06-21-15 at 10:58 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by drypenn Quote
I agree and understand the rationale for the HUMONGOUS size, but in reality, who really shoots at f/1.4 or f/1.2 at the very least 20% of the time (especially outside)? (That being said, I muss confess guilty of using my 50/1.2 at 1.2 maybe 3 or 4 out of ten times .)

In my subjective opinion, if you'll be using these big glasses inside the studio, then it's fine. But, if you'll have to walk around, that ultimate sharpnesst at thin DOF at the cost of being big and heavy will not justify it. I can get a miniscule 20-40 and compromise the sharpness a little, or I can bring my 15 and 31, with a lot of room to spare, as I'll likely be shooting at f/5.6-f/11 anyway, in the real world. And at f/5.6-onwards, I don't think there will be a lot of difference in the IQ to justify the weight penalty. Who knows, the 15's starbursts and the 31's character may even take a bite out of the Sigma's vaunted edge-to-edge sharpness.
It really depends what you shoot and what the style is for that genre, industry, or even area.

I shoot weddings full-time in Southern California, and I probably shoot wide open 75-90% of the time, on 100% of my lenses.

I also shoot astro-landscape timelapses, and 90% of those are made wide open as well.

A lens like a 24-35 f/2, is absolutely made just for its f/2 aperture. If you're not going to shoot with this lens wide open at f/2 75-90% of the time, its definitely not necessary. Any 24-xxx zoom will probably give you about the same sharpness and image quality by f/5.6 or f/8...

The question is, who so desperately needs to zoom between 24 and 35mm that they are willing to give up the extra aperture compared to an f/1.4 prime, AND hoist that extra weight? Hmm...

06-21-2015, 11:12 AM   #65
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24-35/2 with sharp f2 through all focal length will be rather interesting. But not very popular.
If it will have sharp f2.8 from corner to corner, it will interesting for low light landscape.
It's special lens for who likes wide-opened shooting and street shooting from 24 till 35 mm. I use 24, 31 and 35 mm rather often during travel. FA20-35/4 is good lens for FF, but I think it won't be sharp until closing till f5.6-8.
06-21-2015, 11:51 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Matthew Saville Quote
Not entirely true, depending on how much of a stickler you are for extreme, extreme corner sharpness. The one downfall of the tiny Leica lenses is often that, the wider and faster you go, the more you wind up with coma, field curvature, and general softness in the extreme corners.

These ginormous lenses that we're seeing recently, such as the Tamron 15-30 2.8 that also weighs in at over 2 lbs, is that they have shockingly flat field curvature, almost no coma, and are literally almost as sharp in the corners as they are dead-center.

That is, shooting wide open. So if you're the type of photographer who shoots stopped down a few stops anyways, or who doesn't need absurdly high-performance corners, then yeah, these lenses are going to be COMPLETE overkill lol...
Ok so how often the corner performance of a 85mm f/1.2 @f/1.2 is detrimental to your shooting ?

I ask because while I think corner sharpness is important, to me it is much more important if there something in focus in the corners that really need it... If that's a landscape or a scene with all in focus, then yes... But theses thing are difficult to manage under f/2.8 and when possible f/8-16 seems a better setting depending of the deph of field you need and the sensor format.

There even more to this, lenses that are too corrected tend to have lesser bokeh and provide less spicy results. The FA ltd or some leica or the latest Nikon high end 50 mm do try to make pleasing image... Not good test chart results. They can still be quite sharp closed down.

I'd also ask, if your shoot wide open most of the time, then what is your most used apperture? f/1.2 ? f/1.4 or f/2.8 ?

Last edited by Nicolas06; 06-21-2015 at 11:57 AM.
06-21-2015, 05:04 PM - 1 Like   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Ok so how often the corner performance of a 85mm f/1.2 @f/1.2 is detrimental to your shooting ?

I ask because while I think corner sharpness is important, to me it is much more important if there something in focus in the corners that really need it... If that's a landscape or a scene with all in focus, then yes... But theses thing are difficult to manage under f/2.8 and when possible f/8-16 seems a better setting depending of the deph of field you need and the sensor format.

There even more to this, lenses that are too corrected tend to have lesser bokeh and provide less spicy results. The FA ltd or some leica or the latest Nikon high end 50 mm do try to make pleasing image... Not good test chart results. They can still be quite sharp closed down.

I'd also ask, if your shoot wide open most of the time, then what is your most used apperture? f/1.2 ? f/1.4 or f/2.8 ?
Well the Canon 85 L is a joke, it is only useful for creating pretty bokeh and that's about it. I would never use it wide open at 1.2 and expect anywhere but the dead center to be sharp.

To be brief, there are two scenarios in which I am greatly concerned with off-center or corner sharpness. For astro-landscapes, I really prefer my lenses to be amazingly sharp corner to corner, with low coma and low falloff. Pretty much, the most demanding situation you could possibly think of, because we're shooting in nearly pitch-black conditions, and trying to create landscapes at wide-open apertures. To see what kind of weird shenanigans are possible, here's an article on the subject: Nikon Df vs Canon 6D: Creating a 'Drivelapse' Timelapse Sequence

The other situation is in family formals at a wedding, or group photos in general. I rely on my Sigma 35 1.4 Art to be tack-sharp wide open from edge to edge, though not in the extreme corners. Still, edge sharpness and low field curvature are important. I also use my Nikon 85 1.8 G wide open, or at 2.2 or so if fringing is a problem, and I also expect my edges, though not the extreme corners, to be tack-sharp.

Hope this helps clear things up!
06-21-2015, 05:35 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Matthew Saville Quote
Sigma has stated that their Art lenses are constructed in a way that is highly averse to "weather" ingress, and I've used my older Sigma EX lenses in rain, snow, and other conditions with no bad effect. Having said that, the lack of even a weather gasket on the mount is a bit embarrassing, especially considering that Nikon has begun putting that feature on even their cheapest new f/1.8 G primes...

Yes, this is true, however I'd still not trust it. No physical sealing (at the very least on the mount itself) is asking for trouble. Plus those Art lenses aren't cheap.. I'd rather not try it in rain or snow.

OTOH, I have taken my Pentax 55-300 WR lens out in the middle of an ice storm. The top of the lens and my K-5II (as well as ME!) were covered in a sheet of ice but kept working (albeit on/off button, the zoom ring, and my fingers in double gloves got a little stiff but still operated) like a champ. Not doing that without some rubber seals on any lens here.

06-21-2015, 10:34 PM   #69
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Only 11 mm focal interval.
It should be really fantastic in all its numbers to be attractive.
06-21-2015, 11:12 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Yes, this is true, however I'd still not trust it. No physical sealing (at the very least on the mount itself) is asking for trouble. Plus those Art lenses aren't cheap.. I'd rather not try it in rain or snow.

OTOH, I have taken my Pentax 55-300 WR lens out in the middle of an ice storm. The top of the lens and my K-5II (as well as ME!) were covered in a sheet of ice but kept working (albeit on/off button, the zoom ring, and my fingers in double gloves got a little stiff but still operated) like a champ. Not doing that without some rubber seals on any lens here.
Yeah, I've only ever exposed any of my lenses to a light drizzle or snow, never freezing ice. Well, this is part of why I'm joining the Pentax system; for the awesome WR lenses that come even in kit form! I'm extremely pleased that I can have a lens as compact and light as the 55-200 and still make no compromises in extreme weather.

We'll see what the future holds for my adventure photography, with a K-3 II and a few WR lenses! Here's to hoping they can finally borrow the optical design of Tokina 11-16mm 2.8, or better yet the new 11-20mm 2.8. I'd love to see one of those in WR form. Unless the Ricoh purchase of Pentax also ended the cooperation that previously existed between those two. I don't know enough about that situation to even venture a guess as to why we've stopped seeing Tokina optical designs trickle over to Pentax lenses. But since Sigma shows no interest in sealing its Art glass, and Rokinon even further down the totem pole of build quality / sealing, Pentax WR glass seems to be my best bet when the elements get nasty...
06-21-2015, 11:24 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Matthew Saville Quote
Well the Canon 85 L is a joke, it is only useful for creating pretty bokeh and that's about it. I would never use it wide open at 1.2 and expect anywhere but the dead center to be sharp.

To be brief, there are two scenarios in which I am greatly concerned with off-center or corner sharpness. For astro-landscapes, I really prefer my lenses to be amazingly sharp corner to corner, with low coma and low falloff. Pretty much, the most demanding situation you could possibly think of, because we're shooting in nearly pitch-black conditions, and trying to create landscapes at wide-open apertures. To see what kind of weird shenanigans are possible, here's an article on the subject: Nikon Df vs Canon 6D: Creating a 'Drivelapse' Timelapse Sequence

The other situation is in family formals at a wedding, or group photos in general. I rely on my Sigma 35 1.4 Art to be tack-sharp wide open from edge to edge, though not in the extreme corners. Still, edge sharpness and low field curvature are important. I also use my Nikon 85 1.8 G wide open, or at 2.2 or so if fringing is a problem, and I also expect my edges, though not the extreme corners, to be tack-sharp.

Hope this helps clear things up!
I understand that for astrophotography you can use a wide apperture... but for family formals at a wedding and group photos, I'd expect you to close down quite a bit, isn't it? Just 2 persons in a picture, they might not always be in the same plane and so f/4-5.6 (with an FF!) look more safe than f/2 or maybe even f/2.8, isn't it? Many lenses are sharp on corners at f/4-5.6 without being huge...
06-22-2015, 12:09 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
I understand that for astrophotography you can use a wide apperture... but for family formals at a wedding and group photos, I'd expect you to close down quite a bit, isn't it? Just 2 persons in a picture, they might not always be in the same plane and so f/4-5.6 (with an FF!) look more safe than f/2 or maybe even f/2.8, isn't it? Many lenses are sharp on corners at f/4-5.6 without being huge...
If I'm dealing with two rows of people, then I'll usually be using my 24-120mm f/4 anyways, and yes I may stop down to 5.6 or 8.0 if necessary.

However if it's just one row of people, I don't hesitate to put an extra few seconds into lining them up perfectly, and shooting from a tripod wide open on my Sigma 35 1.4 Art. Faces are tack-sharp edge to edge, and the faint background bokeh really sets apart the images from what people are used to seeing.

It's certainly not a technique that works for everybody. However in my area and in my industry in general, I can absolutely say for certain that many folks shoot this way, and highly value the wide-open sharpness of Sigma's three 1.4 full-frame Art primes, as well as the 85 EX which is no slouch!
06-22-2015, 06:23 AM - 1 Like   #73
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I really wouldn't be surprised if Sigma will follow this up next year with an 18-24mm f1.4, weighing almost 1.5 kgs. and 40 cm long!
06-22-2015, 06:33 AM - 1 Like   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by drypenn Quote
I really wouldn't be surprised if Sigma will follow this up next year with an 18-24mm f1.4, weighing almost 1.5 kgs. and 40 cm long!
Shhhhttt, they might actually do it
06-22-2015, 10:02 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by drypenn Quote
I really wouldn't be surprised if Sigma will follow this up next year with an 18-24mm f1.4, weighing almost 1.5 kgs. and 40 cm long!
I'd settle for "just" an 18mm or 20mm f/1.4 or f/1.8, as long as it is roughly the same size as the existing 20 1.8, and roughly the same weight as the other 1.4's...
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