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08-17-2015, 10:54 AM   #451
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I would point out again, that with an EVF and no mirror it would be possible to have a shorter lens mount to sensor distance, with an adapter allowing full transfer of all Pentax lens functions, AND adapters to mount any and all other types of lens mounts in the manner of 3/4 cameras. Might even be possible to get Canikon adapters that transferred aperture info and automation .No more Sigrom won't make it in K-mount.


Last edited by WPRESTO; 08-17-2015 at 11:59 AM.
08-17-2015, 11:00 AM - 1 Like   #452
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
I would point out again, tha twith an EVF and no mirror it would be possible to have a shorter lens mount to sensor distance, with an adapter allowing full transfer of all Pentax lens functions, AND adapters to mount any and all other types of lens mounts in the manner of 3/4 cameras. Might even be possible to get Canikon adapters that transferred aperture info and automation .No more Sigrom won't make it in K-mount.
People bring this up a lot. Honestly, I don't want to be able to mount fifty different ancient mounts on my camera. Using my K mount lenses with good native support is what I'm looking for.

At this point, if someone wants to use multiple different lenses on their camera, Sony is the place to go. Pentax is unlikely to out-tech them and at this point, Pentax's strength is the k mount.
08-17-2015, 12:21 PM   #453
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There are really great hopes that Pentax engineers could fetch such an EVF in the back of their pentaprism to give the apparently so impressive A7Rii performances in 4 dimensions AF to the future flagship... with the choice left to the user btw optical+phase detection AF or electronic+hybrid sensor based AF
Given the fact that the later will be for sure available in LV mode.
08-17-2015, 01:10 PM   #454
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Eye AF
Impressive tech. Face detection always worked well with Sony mirrorless. So I guess it's just building on that.

I wonder if it is limited to human eyes - ie the process works: face detection first, then eye detection within a detected face?

If it's linked to face detection, unfortunately eye detection AF probably won't improve AF on wildlife or pets - unless the animal looks human, I guess.

08-17-2015, 01:12 PM - 1 Like   #455
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I'll have to try my next bear shots with a 35mm 1.4 lens and see if it works. The nose is quite a bit closer though, would have to stop down. Preferably all set up before getting that close.
08-17-2015, 01:19 PM   #456
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QuoteOriginally posted by zeitlos Quote
@gorme: what about a hybrid viewfinder?
Same than Kunzite ^^ If the optical part is usable as it is, it's ok for me I just don't want the electronic stuff to separate me from action.
08-17-2015, 04:24 PM   #457
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QuoteOriginally posted by gorme Quote
Same than Kunzite ^^ If the optical part is usable as it is, it's ok for me I just don't want the electronic stuff to separate me from action.
I felt that way very strongly about mirrorless cameras too, and have until now been very un-impressed with EVFs due to their lag time, shutter responsiveness, and to be honest, they hurt my eyes! Especially when doing astro-landscape photography at night.

The newest, latest EVFs are beginning to change all that. The lag time and shutter responsiveness, even the resolution, is about as good as an optical viewfinder. And the added benefit of seeing your exposure and white balance 100% of the time is great for high-volume, fast-paced shooters who worry about post-production efficiency. (Although a landscape photographer can take their pictures with leisure, and just review on the rear LCD)

As I said before, it is somewhat sad for me to realize that EVFs are indeed "the future". I'm sure that many hobbyists and full-time pros alike will be absolutely addicted to EVFs in no time. Call me a nostalgic old geezer, but I still like an optical viewfinder. I can't believe an optical viewfinder on a digital camera is soon going to be considered almost as "oldschool" as looking at a ground glass upside down and backwards on a view camera.

TLDR; I sincerely hope that optical prisms continue to have a respected place in this bell-and-whistle infested digital future. Pentax has always prided itself in bigger, brighter viewfinders even in its most beginner models, so if any company can "keep the prism alive" it's them.
08-17-2015, 05:21 PM   #458
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
I'll have to try my next bear shots with a 35mm 1.4 lens and see if it works. The nose is quite a bit closer though, would have to stop down. Preferably all set up before getting that close.
Mate....shoot our bears down here with 15mm......take my time....enjoy the moment......(didn't know you had Koala Bears too)

08-17-2015, 06:28 PM   #459
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QuoteOriginally posted by Matthew Saville Quote
I felt that way very strongly about mirrorless cameras too, and have until now been very un-impressed with EVFs due to their lag time, shutter responsiveness, and to be honest, they hurt my eyes! Especially when doing astro-landscape photography at night.

The newest, latest EVFs are beginning to change all that. The lag time and shutter responsiveness, even the resolution, is about as good as an optical viewfinder. And the added benefit of seeing your exposure and white balance 100% of the time is great for high-volume, fast-paced shooters who worry about post-production efficiency. (Although a landscape photographer can take their pictures with leisure, and just review on the rear LCD)

As I said before, it is somewhat sad for me to realize that EVFs are indeed "the future". I'm sure that many hobbyists and full-time pros alike will be absolutely addicted to EVFs in no time. Call me a nostalgic old geezer, but I still like an optical viewfinder. I can't believe an optical viewfinder on a digital camera is soon going to be considered almost as "oldschool" as looking at a ground glass upside down and backwards on a view camera.

TLDR; I sincerely hope that optical prisms continue to have a respected place in this bell-and-whistle infested digital future. Pentax has always prided itself in bigger, brighter viewfinders even in its most beginner models, so if any company can "keep the prism alive" it's them.
Matthew, one of the key drawbacks I found with EVFs is they can't truly match the ambient light levels when viewing. In other words, on really bright days the EVF wasn't bright enough. In really dark scenes, the only way for the EVF to adequately display the scene was to gain-up and appear "too bright" for the scene which, as a consequence, also messed up viewing of the real DR being captured. Are you finding the latest EVFs not impaired by what I considered to be killer problems? Thanks.
08-18-2015, 12:53 AM - 1 Like   #460
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
If it's linked to face detection, unfortunately eye detection AF probably won't improve AF on wildlife or pets - unless the animal looks human, I guess.
Pentax has had pet face recognition for years, so don't worry
08-19-2015, 02:00 AM   #461
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Matthew, one of the key drawbacks I found with EVFs is they can't truly match the ambient light levels when viewing. In other words, on really bright days the EVF wasn't bright enough. In really dark scenes, the only way for the EVF to adequately display the scene was to gain-up and appear "too bright" for the scene which, as a consequence, also messed up viewing of the real DR being captured. Are you finding the latest EVFs not impaired by what I considered to be killer problems? Thanks.
Unfortunately that is the exact problem I'm still having. The dang EVF is far too bright when I'm shooting at night, even if I turn it down all the way. Both the rear LCD and the EVF could use a whole 50-75% further darkening.

In bright sun, however, if I put my eye to the EVF I get a great view. I've always preferred having a better eyepiece even when shooting with optical viewfinders, but yeah it's not a problem anymore in bright sun.
08-19-2015, 05:23 AM   #462
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QuoteOriginally posted by Matthew Saville Quote
Unfortunately that is the exact problem I'm still having. The dang EVF is far too bright when I'm shooting at night, even if I turn it down all the way. Both the rear LCD and the EVF could use a whole 50-75% further darkening.

In bright sun, however, if I put my eye to the EVF I get a great view. I've always preferred having a better eyepiece even when shooting with optical viewfinders, but yeah it's not a problem anymore in bright sun.
Which EVF are you using? The Sony A7II can be set to show exposure, so the EVF is only as bright as the final image. So when shooting a snow-scape that would cause a DSLR to meter too dark and turn the snow gray, with the A7II you see the exposure in the EVF.

From a working experience stand point, I prefer the OVF over the EVF, but from a technical advantage stand point, I prefer the EVF. The EVFs that were available just a few years ago where worthless, but the current quality of EVFs are quite good. A lot of that has to do with the read speed of the sensor and processing power. The EVF can't refresh faster than the sensor can read and the last few generations of sensors were not fast enough. That is one of the key points of the new Sony BSI is that it can be read at 60+ FPS. Even if I don't care about 4K video, the technology that allows 4K is also improving the quality of the EVF for still photography.
08-19-2015, 09:34 AM   #463
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Which EVF are you using? The Sony A7II can be set to show exposure, so the EVF is only as bright as the final image. So when shooting a snow-scape that would cause a DSLR to meter too dark and turn the snow gray, with the A7II you see the exposure in the EVF.

From a working experience stand point, I prefer the OVF over the EVF, but from a technical advantage stand point, I prefer the EVF. The EVFs that were available just a few years ago where worthless, but the current quality of EVFs are quite good. A lot of that has to do with the read speed of the sensor and processing power. The EVF can't refresh faster than the sensor can read and the last few generations of sensors were not fast enough. That is one of the key points of the new Sony BSI is that it can be read at 60+ FPS. Even if I don't care about 4K video, the technology that allows 4K is also improving the quality of the EVF for still photography.
I'm currently reviewing the new A7R II.

"so the EVF is only as bright as the final image"

In theory, yes. The brightness of the EVF in realtime will be the same brightness as the image captured, ...when viewed on that same EVF.

However, the brightness of the EVF is still its own measurement, and you can manually turn it up or down. Most nowadays also have an auto setting.

What I'm speaking to is the simple problem of shooting in nearly pitch-dark conditions, where the EVF is just too bright. It hurts your eyes to try and go back and forth between "night vision" and ANY sort of electronic screen.

Obviously this is an inherent contradiction between attempting to let your night vision become well-adjusted, and staring at an electronic display. You might argue that this is just the nature of all displays. However I still wish that modern camera EVFs and LCD displays could be adjusted much dimmer.

I know this is possible because on my cell phone I have an app that allows me to take the brightness down beyond its stock configuration, using practically infinite increments that actually do approach near-black. You can dim it low enough that it would be dimmer than a starry sky at night, effectively allowing you to maintain perfect night vision in theory.
08-19-2015, 10:17 AM - 2 Likes   #464
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Another FF discussion gets taken over by EVF enthusiasts.. what a surprise. I guess it's just natural to discuss what's out there, as opposed to what's an imaginary proposition, except for a few Pentax engineers, who don't participate in the forum gabfests.

The first rule of EVF club is "tell everyone about EVF club."
08-19-2015, 10:37 AM   #465
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Another FF discussion gets taken over by EVF enthusiasts.. what a surprise. I guess it's just natural to discuss what's out there, as opposed to what's an imaginary proposition, except for a few Pentax engineers, who don't participate in the forum gabfests.

The first rule of EVF club is "tell everyone about EVF club."
Ironically, we're discussing one of the biggest drawbacks of EVFs, and the main reason why we still prefer OVFs. Not sure if you caught that. Either way I'm the exact opposite of an EVF enthusiast. I'm a camera reviewer who isn't easily swayed by hype or kool-aid.

It was mentioned that Pentax had a patent for some sort of hybrid viewfinder technology, and I wanted to mention how happy that made me due to the drawbacks still present in even the "latest and greatest" EVF cameras. But thanks for keeping us "on topic"...
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