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09-23-2015, 08:43 AM   #871
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well the 100.000 units dslr might be the number for Pentax to sell this year.
With some 10 million DSLRs to be shipped by Japanese manufacturers in 2015, 100,000 under the Pentax brand would be a very, very low market share.

09-23-2015, 08:48 AM   #872
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I used that number as a very rough guesstimation for the sales of a single, reasonably high-end model. In this context, only the magnitude matters.
FTR, the initial production volume for the K-3II was 10,000 units per month. But I have no idea if they continued production at the same rate; perhaps not.
09-23-2015, 08:51 AM   #873
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They probably scaled to handle the recall...
09-23-2015, 08:59 AM   #874
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
With some 10 million DSLRs to be shipped by Japanese manufacturers in 2015, 100,000 under the Pentax brand would be a very, very low market share.
I wrote about a few things in this perspective. All things we don't know exact data from Ricoh itself.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/137-photographic-industry-professionals/288709-pentax-marketshare-less-then-1-a.html

And

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/137-photographic-industry-professionals/292552-collapsing-japanese-camera-market.html

So Pentax sold last year like 150.000 units dslr. Maybe a little more, but I wouldn't be to excited. With the Collapsing market in the first quarter in Japan they Surely lost some sales. Maybe they repared those sales by the sales of K-30 from left over inventory at bottom price that was a write-off in last years 4th quarter. They Surely have lost sales to people waiting for the up coming full frame over the past 6 months. The dslr market is still down, at the moment with 5 %, but the last quarter probably will go down a little more. There are not to many exciting new camera's on the market directed at mass sales.

So expecting selling 100.000 units isn't even to poorly.

09-23-2015, 09:03 AM   #875
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Too many assumptions there, I doubt their accuracy.
09-23-2015, 09:06 AM   #876
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Too many assumptions there, I doubt their accuracy.
You an always look at it from the bright site........It isn't less then those numbers.
09-23-2015, 09:11 AM   #877
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I'm trained to see problems with every unchecked assumption - because most of the time, there is a problem.
Just the assumption that "Frankly the composition of the Japan market for Pentax/Ricoh is larger than the global market." is referring to the quantities sold on different regions (and not market shares) is potentially a big problem; one that might invalidate all your calculations
But there are many others.
09-23-2015, 09:33 AM   #878
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I'm trained to see problems with every unchecked assumption - because most of the time, there is a problem.
Just the assumption that "Frankly the composition of the Japan market for Pentax/Ricoh is larger than the global market." is referring to the quantities sold on different regions (and not market shares) is potentially a big problem; one that might invalidate all your calculations
But there are many others.
That is from a quote from a rep of Ricoh in an official interview. My assumption I that it is about units and not money.

Nikon just communicates the sold units and that is something Ricoh doesn't.

09-23-2015, 09:40 AM   #879
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I know, I just quoted them But as I said, it might be about market shares.
09-23-2015, 10:14 AM   #880
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Thanks for trying to explain all this. Not sure I get it yet, but fortunately I don't have to in order to make nice pictures Maybe I'll just stick with making pictures instead of trying to understand how it works. So bottom line: APS-C 'better' than m4/3, FF "better" than APS-C, and 645z kicks everybody else into the turf. Got it.
I think APS-C is really good right now -- really, really good. I think for 90 percent of users out there, APS-C is more than enough for their typical uses. The places you will see differences just end up being the extremes -- super low light, need for really shallow depth of field, really high dynamic range etc. Unfortunately, camera reviewers tend to focus on these extremes, purely because cameras are so similar in the average situations.
09-23-2015, 10:30 AM   #881
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QuoteQuote:
But if you can sell the same quantity without reducing the price?
Every CEOs dream. But, completely out of tune with economic reality. Based on the old bell curve, as the price gets higher the number who can afford it gets and smaller. marketing is always looking at how many of whatever they can sell at different price points, and picking the one that makes them the most money. Right now the price point on the K-3 is $700, because they can move cameras at that price. If they could move them at $750, they'd be at $750.
09-23-2015, 10:35 AM   #882
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What I meant was to sell the same quantity without reducing the price, by including video. Alternatively, sell fewer cameras without video. Or sell as many cameras without video, by reducing the price (which was your 'solution'). Actually I'm convinced they can sell more cameras for a higher price than if they didn't had video.
I'm not talking about selling the same product, which is what you're referring to. Let's not forget the context of our discussion
09-23-2015, 10:44 AM   #883
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QuoteQuote:
What I meant was to sell the same quantity without reducing the price, by including video.
If it makes them money, why not? But that's not a given. Adding video and selling at the same price, could conceivably sell less quantity than leaving video off and reducing the price. These are all unknowns, probably even to the geniuses at Pentax marketing.

I suspect the current feeling is by putting in rudimentary video and not adding a lot to the price , they get more sales than if they left video off all together, or went for a more complete video solution. I also suspect they know, most Pentax users don't buy Pentax for video.
09-23-2015, 02:02 PM   #884
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I am elderly and sometimes not very quick but sorry I really, really do not understand this. A 24MP APS-C has the same number of pixels as a 24MP FF sensor, right? Or do I just not understand this? So a 4000x6000 image is the same on both, yes? So the magnification is the same? But on the FF the pixels are larger or spaced more or something so the SNR is better? Sorry to be so dense, sometimes I just have a hard time getting a concept.
I know you already got several answers, but I prefer to think of it in terms of lenses, so I'll give that answer:

Put a lens on your 24MP FF camera and take a picture. Move the lens to your 24MP APS-C camera. Take another picture, with the same settings. View both images at the same size. You have enlarged the APS-C image more, and thus made the imperfections of your lens a larger part of the result. (Obviously you also got differect framing and so on, but that's not related to technical quality.)

Depending on the lens the outer parts may be bad, but with a lens that covers FF properly the FF results will be better.
09-23-2015, 02:16 PM   #885
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Every CEOs dream. But, completely out of tune with economic reality. Based on the old bell curve, as the price gets higher the number who can afford it gets and smaller. marketing is always looking at how many of whatever they can sell at different price points, and picking the one that makes them the most money. Right now the price point on the K-3 is $700, because they can move cameras at that price. If they could move them at $750, they'd be at $750.
The problem currently is that all CMOS sensors are able to shoot video. The only question is what codec each brand chooses to use. Certainly it is not free, but leaving it off of the camera certainly would reduce the number of bodies sold, while at this point video is sunk cost.

Pentax doesn't make sensors. I have no idea what it would cost them to start their own fab and deliberately try to create a sensor that shoots great stills, but is completely incapable of video, but it seems like it would be more expensive than the route they have chosen to take.

I understand that a lot of photographers don't shoot video with their SLRs. I don't very often, although sometimes when I only have my SLR with me, I will shoot my kids doing something or something like that. But in general I get as good results from my cell phone. That doesn't mean that leaving video off wouldn't kill Pentax SLR sales.
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