FF out in 4 months

patarok · 10-01-2015, 04:55 PM

What has all this got to do with a FF hitting the market in 4 months? I know where this leads us... someone will make a comparison with the mods to ....ahem.... what will lead us to 1 POINT GODWIN. EOL

**Rondec** · 10-01-2015, 05:06 PM

Four months from when? That's the real question.

Tesla · 10-01-2015, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

Four months from when? That's the real question.

The first rumors were from June to make it late October or early November.. but now it seems to be another six months.. so maybe four months from January would be my guess... April 1st!!

Making full circle!

Rico · 10-01-2015, 08:22 PM

This all sounds about right to me. Last spring(June 2015) there was a 3D mockup on display. Pentax should be demoing a FF camera next week that people can actually hold for Fall 2015. Some hard specs would be nice. Then Spring 2016 debut.

As long as they get it right the first time. I mentioned this in another thread that a key factor to the success of this camera is the UHS-II device bus interface the camera needs to have to take better advantage of a 36 or 42 mp sensors. There are several cameras that have already implemented UHS-II. Samsung NX1 Fuji-film XT1 and the Panasonic GH4. Strange the newest Sony A7R II is still using a UHS-I bus. I don't think I would buy a Sony A7RII because of that.

Zygonyx · 10-02-2015, 12:02 AM

Good point indeed.
And good excuse to delay delivery if any

thequo · 10-02-2015, 05:29 AM

If my memory serves me right, UHS-II has a theoretical transfer speed of 312MB/s. I'd say a very good real world implementation would deliver a maximum of 90%, that's 280MB/s. With bypassing the camera buffer this would result in 7,77fps with a 36mpx sensor and 6,66fps with a 42mpx sensor directly written to the SD-card until it's full. So I would opt for a 36mpx sensor.

VoiceOfReason · 10-02-2015, 05:37 AM

4 months from now it will be... wait, still winter.

totsmuyco · 10-02-2015, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by VoiceOfReason

4 months from now it will be... wait, still winter.

I hope not. Just for the sake of FF lovers.

VoiceOfReason · 10-02-2015, 06:03 AM

Originally posted by totsmuyco

I hope not. Just for the sake of FF lovers.

Winter is the one season I could do without. I don't need a FF, but if it is the right price with the right specs I'll go ahead and get one.

bxf · 10-02-2015, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by VoiceOfReason

Winter is the one season I could do without. I don't need a FF, but if it is the right price with the right specs I'll go ahead and get one.

+1 on both counts.

drougge · 10-02-2015, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by thequo

If my memory serves me right, UHS-II has a theoretical transfer speed of 312MB/s. I'd say a very good real world implementation would deliver a maximum of 90%, that's 280MB/s. With bypassing the camera buffer this would result in 7,77fps with a 36mpx sensor and 6,66fps with a 42mpx sensor directly written to the SD-card until it's full. So I would opt for a 36mpx sensor.

If "bypassing the camera buffer" means streaming the sensor data directly to the card (which isn't likely to work) your numbers are wrong, because they assume 8 bits per pixel. I think we can assume 14 bits per pixel, or at the very least 12. A simple lossless compression as employed in typical current cameras brings it down to about 8 bits per pixel for images without too much noise, but that definitely involves the camera buffer.

RonHendriks1966 · 10-02-2015, 06:48 AM

Originally posted by thequo

If my memory serves me right, UHS-II has a theoretical transfer speed of 312MB/s. I'd say a very good real world implementation would deliver a maximum of 90%, that's 280MB/s. With bypassing the camera buffer this would result in 7,77fps with a 36mpx sensor and 6,66fps with a 42mpx sensor directly written to the SD-card until it's full. So I would opt for a 36mpx sensor.

With 42 megapixels 14-bit one can expect 50 MB files. So writing 5 fps would catcher up with that as a max framerate. With the current lay-out of the K-3 one could write to the card at a speed of 1 fps with a 42 megapixel sensor.

Zygonyx · 10-02-2015, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

With 42 megapixels 14-bit one can expect 50 MB files. So writing 5 fps would catcher up with that as a max framerate. With the current lay-out of the K-3 one could write to the card at a speed of 1 fps with a 42 megapixel sensor.

Writing time for 645D is minimum 11 sec.
1,5 fps is the max. shooting frame-rate, and you can burst several seconds.

So :
1/ fps shooting and writing are different things, the real concern is when does the camera reach "buffer saturation" ? , meaning shooting is over
2/ no problem in my MF use.

RonHendriks1966 · 10-02-2015, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

Writing time for 645D is minimum 11 sec.
1,5 fps is the max. shooting frame-rate, and you can burst several seconds.

So :
1/ fps shooting and writing are different things, the real concern is when does the camera reach "buffer saturation" ? , meaning shooting is over
2/ no problem in my MF use.

The 645D is running on PRIME II and has a write speed at max about 19 MB/s and then there is first the waiting on processing with the PRIME II. Now we have a new and faster generation PRIME III inside K-3 and 645Z. That processor is a lot faster, but now busspeed writing to the card is limiting speed at max 45 MB/s.

If you have a wait time of 11 seconds then:
- your card is slow and you should Update
- you write to both cards, wich is done one by one
- you have lens corrections in camera turned on, wich is only good for jpg.
One of them or a combo makes you wait!

biz-engineer · 10-05-2015, 10:39 PM

Today is the 6th of October. I check Ricoh imaging news, but I did not see anything new. Are Ricoh having a sabbatical year?

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10-01-2015, 04:55 PM	#961
patarok Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 389	What has all this got to do with a FF hitting the market in 4 months? I know where this leads us... someone will make a comparison with the mods to ....ahem.... what will lead us to 1 POINT GODWIN. EOL

10-01-2015, 05:06 PM	#962
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Four months from when? That's the real question.

10-01-2015, 07:34 PM	#963
Tesla Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Washington State Posts: 589	Originally posted by Rondec Four months from when? That's the real question. The first rumors were from June to make it late October or early November.. but now it seems to be another six months.. so maybe four months from January would be my guess... April 1st!! Making full circle!

10-01-2015, 08:22 PM	#964
Rico Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,204	This all sounds about right to me. Last spring(June 2015) there was a 3D mockup on display. Pentax should be demoing a FF camera next week that people can actually hold for Fall 2015. Some hard specs would be nice. Then Spring 2016 debut. As long as they get it right the first time. I mentioned this in another thread that a key factor to the success of this camera is the UHS-II device bus interface the camera needs to have to take better advantage of a 36 or 42 mp sensors. There are several cameras that have already implemented UHS-II. Samsung NX1 Fuji-film XT1 and the Panasonic GH4. Strange the newest Sony A7R II is still using a UHS-I bus. I don't think I would buy a Sony A7RII because of that.

10-02-2015, 12:02 AM	#965
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,032	Good point indeed. And good excuse to delay delivery if any

10-02-2015, 05:29 AM	#966
thequo Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 41	If my memory serves me right, UHS-II has a theoretical transfer speed of 312MB/s. I'd say a very good real world implementation would deliver a maximum of 90%, that's 280MB/s. With bypassing the camera buffer this would result in 7,77fps with a 36mpx sensor and 6,66fps with a 42mpx sensor directly written to the SD-card until it's full. So I would opt for a 36mpx sensor.

10-02-2015, 05:37 AM	#967
VoiceOfReason Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mishawaka IN area Photos: Albums Posts: 6,124	4 months from now it will be... wait, still winter.

10-02-2015, 05:50 AM	#968
totsmuyco Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Iloilo City Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,276	Originally posted by VoiceOfReason 4 months from now it will be... wait, still winter. I hope not. Just for the sake of FF lovers.

10-02-2015, 06:03 AM	#969
VoiceOfReason Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mishawaka IN area Photos: Albums Posts: 6,124	Originally posted by totsmuyco I hope not. Just for the sake of FF lovers. Winter is the one season I could do without. I don't need a FF, but if it is the right price with the right specs I'll go ahead and get one.

10-02-2015, 06:40 AM	#970
bxf Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Lisbon area Posts: 1,660	Originally posted by VoiceOfReason Winter is the one season I could do without. I don't need a FF, but if it is the right price with the right specs I'll go ahead and get one. +1 on both counts.

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10-02-2015, 06:40 AM	#971
drougge Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Malmö Photos: Gallery Posts: 787	Originally posted by thequo If my memory serves me right, UHS-II has a theoretical transfer speed of 312MB/s. I'd say a very good real world implementation would deliver a maximum of 90%, that's 280MB/s. With bypassing the camera buffer this would result in 7,77fps with a 36mpx sensor and 6,66fps with a 42mpx sensor directly written to the SD-card until it's full. So I would opt for a 36mpx sensor. If "bypassing the camera buffer" means streaming the sensor data directly to the card (which isn't likely to work) your numbers are wrong, because they assume 8 bits per pixel. I think we can assume 14 bits per pixel, or at the very least 12. A simple lossless compression as employed in typical current cameras brings it down to about 8 bits per pixel for images without too much noise, but that definitely involves the camera buffer.

10-02-2015, 06:48 AM	#972
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by thequo If my memory serves me right, UHS-II has a theoretical transfer speed of 312MB/s. I'd say a very good real world implementation would deliver a maximum of 90%, that's 280MB/s. With bypassing the camera buffer this would result in 7,77fps with a 36mpx sensor and 6,66fps with a 42mpx sensor directly written to the SD-card until it's full. So I would opt for a 36mpx sensor. With 42 megapixels 14-bit one can expect 50 MB files. So writing 5 fps would catcher up with that as a max framerate. With the current lay-out of the K-3 one could write to the card at a speed of 1 fps with a 42 megapixel sensor.

10-02-2015, 06:51 AM	#973
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,032	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 With 42 megapixels 14-bit one can expect 50 MB files. So writing 5 fps would catcher up with that as a max framerate. With the current lay-out of the K-3 one could write to the card at a speed of 1 fps with a 42 megapixel sensor. Writing time for 645D is minimum 11 sec. 1,5 fps is the max. shooting frame-rate, and you can burst several seconds. So : 1/ fps shooting and writing are different things, the real concern is when does the camera reach "buffer saturation" ? , meaning shooting is over 2/ no problem in my MF use.

10-02-2015, 09:14 AM	#974
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Zygonyx Writing time for 645D is minimum 11 sec. 1,5 fps is the max. shooting frame-rate, and you can burst several seconds. So : 1/ fps shooting and writing are different things, the real concern is when does the camera reach "buffer saturation" ? , meaning shooting is over 2/ no problem in my MF use. The 645D is running on PRIME II and has a write speed at max about 19 MB/s and then there is first the waiting on processing with the PRIME II. Now we have a new and faster generation PRIME III inside K-3 and 645Z. That processor is a lot faster, but now busspeed writing to the card is limiting speed at max 45 MB/s. If you have a wait time of 11 seconds then: - your card is slow and you should Update - you write to both cards, wich is done one by one - you have lens corrections in camera turned on, wich is only good for jpg. One of them or a combo makes you wait!

10-05-2015, 10:39 PM	#975
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,223	Today is the 6th of October. I check Ricoh imaging news, but I did not see anything new. Are Ricoh having a sabbatical year?