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07-07-2015, 12:09 PM   #286
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So, Class A, Quicksand, let's agree on facts.
No striking difference btw last Pentax DFA150-450 and competition AF wise or IQ wise ....
Why would this differ for future DFA70-200 ?
This was indeed not even the case for pre-prod samples...

07-07-2015, 12:23 PM   #287
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
So, Class A, Quicksand, let's agree on facts.
No striking difference btw last Pentax DFA150-450 and competition AF wise or IQ wise ....
Why would this differ for future DFA70-200 ?
This was indeed not even the case for pre-prod samples...
Sure, I'd like to agree on facts but: (1) we haven't seen very many 70-200 samples yet, the shots we have seen are from pre-production models, and nothing has been tested by an unaffiliated third party; and (2) what good are "facts" in a debate about camera lenses?

I WANT MICROCONTRAST, PIXIE DUST, AND PLEASING RENDITION!
07-07-2015, 01:19 PM   #288
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
i think is better to aim for the people that already knwo the brand, LIKES the brand, and want to grow within the brand...
You assume that Ricoh wants to keep the current user base. Perhaps it is so small, so cheap, so picky, so quirky that they are better off starting from zero and building an entire new user base?

Maybe not entirely, but maybe they think that the FF user base already left and so there is no reason to convince current Corolla drivers to buy a Lexus. Better to market to Mercedes buyers and convince them to switch.

I hear lots of whining that Pentax needs a cheap FF to take care of current user base. I think that is wishful thinking, or whining. "Please mr. Ricoh make me a cheap FF because I cannot afford an expensive one". Not sure that is going to work, I think they are moving on and targeting people who can and will buy a $3,500 camera.
07-07-2015, 01:31 PM   #289
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
You assume that Ricoh wants to keep the current user base. Perhaps it is so small, so cheap, so picky, so quirky that they are better off starting from zero and building an entire new user base?

Maybe not entirely, but maybe they think that the FF user base already left and so there is no reason to convince current Corolla drivers to buy a Lexus. Better to market to Mercedes buyers and convince them to switch.

I hear lots of whining that Pentax needs a cheap FF to take care of current user base. I think that is wishful thinking, or whining. "Please mr. Ricoh make me a cheap FF because I cannot afford an expensive one". Not sure that is going to work, I think they are moving on and targeting people who can and will buy a $3,500 camera.
Why Pentax? Outside of Japan they have little presence, marketing or brand recognition. It's hard to see how this is fertile ground for starting over in search of a new base of users especially with that question looming over them. But you never know. Good luck to them anyway. Finding enough people to shell out $3500 for a Pentax FF when "Why Nikon/Canon/Sony?" is a no-brainer by comparison is going to be very, very tough, I'd imagine. There's no future in cheap cameras except on a smartphone, that's for sure.


Last edited by mecrox; 07-07-2015 at 01:38 PM.
07-07-2015, 01:34 PM   #290
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
None of the above opinion matters a whit. They're making a pro-spec D810 competitor with a wrinkle or two and pricing it in the upper $2000 range (value for money, not inexpensive), not a D750 or D610. The lenses are best-in-breed and priced accordingly. Lower priced but still good value FF equipment comes a bit later.

Anything else would be stupid. They have a pent-up demand for an FF body and they could never hope sell an FF camera in high volumes with their marked share. No one outside the Pentax camp (and very few of those) will raise an eyebrow for another me too "affordable" FF body. Such a camera will also compete head on with the K-3 (and loose).
A 36mp(+) FF body with the K-3II feature set (or the K-3II replacement) housed in a k-3II style metal body will fit in the line-up as well as appeal those those who can afford their new FF lenses.

Last edited by Pål Jensen; 07-07-2015 at 01:39 PM.
07-07-2015, 01:36 PM   #291
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If it is released at 3500 I will be content with my K3 for some time to come. Of course I'll wait the 6 months to a year that it will take for them to drop into the 2000-2500 range and then bite.
07-07-2015, 01:48 PM - 1 Like   #292
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I didn't say it would be VERY expencive..I pointed out that it maybe won't be as cheap as your used to have. A difference there.
07-07-2015, 02:38 PM   #293
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D750 ( or D610 ) pricing for D810 features and IQ - Pentax users will buy the camera in droves, as will new users.

D750 pricing for D750 features and IQ - no one will protest too much. Pentax users will buy, others will look seriously at the item.

D810 pricing for D750 features and IQ - Pentax users won't be happy. And non-Pentax users probably won't see any value in the Pentax FF relative to just buying a genuine D810 .

Such is the dilemma of Ricoh.

07-07-2015, 03:23 PM - 1 Like   #294
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Ricoh is looking to be profitable. They look at the Canon APS-C and wonder why they can sell it for $500 or so more than theirs.

I talked to a friend who has the D810. He also has a D800. Not inexpensive but a very nice body, very capable, very nice IQ. Canon has bodies in that equivalent market as well. Not inexpensive, but very capable. I would suspect the Pentax model will be in that range with a very compelling feature set.

Everyone here will be disappointed except those who buy it and shoot with it.
07-07-2015, 03:44 PM   #295
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In fact I'm confident that it'll be near 2.5k€ and that kenspro is just as in the dark as us about pricing. Any pricing above that would require a very capable video camera to compete with Sony and i'm not sure Pentax is able to do it at the first try and it'll be too risky to bet on this.
07-07-2015, 03:58 PM   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Oh, someone needs to tell Pentax that their 70-200/2.8 has 23 lens elements (not 19), one of which is a fluorite (instead of none), that it has a ultra-sonic ring motor (instead of DC), and two-mode, four-stop optical image stabilisation (instead of none), and that it only weighs 1.6kg (instead of 1.755kg).

Oh, and finally that it only costs $2,099.00 (instead of 2,296.95), that's $1999 with the current rebate.

Please, keep it real.
When the final lens is released I'll base my decision on actual performance metrics. You can spreadsheet elements and debate whether US ring motor versus DC (whatever actually ends up in the lens) matters AFA AF speed and accuracy.

I hate the compulsive habit to dismiss whatever Pentax is about to do before anyone has actually seen it.
07-07-2015, 04:24 PM   #297
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Oh, someone needs to tell Pentax that their 70-200/2.8 has 23 lens elements (not 19), one of which is a fluorite (instead of none), that it has a ultra-sonic ring motor (instead of DC), and two-mode, four-stop optical image stabilisation (instead of none), and that it only weighs 1.6kg (instead of 1.755kg).

Oh, and finally that it only costs $2,099.00 (instead of 2,296.95), that's $1999 with the current rebate.

Please, keep it real.
Ever since Canon developed their EF-mount auto-focus lenses, Canon lenses have been better than Pentax lenses, which is why I switched from Pentax to Canon twenty years ago. In recent years, Pentax bodies have been better than comparable Canon bodies, which is why I got a Pentax K-30 when my second Canon Rebel died in eight years. Yes, it would be nice for Pentax to be clearly superior in all areas, but it will be good for them to improve consistently. I'm not sure why you're pining after a USM version; I didn't notice any significant difference between using a Q-mount and an EF-mount lens during that time when I had an operating body for each, so I have every reason to expect the DC lenses to be fine (right now, the only AF K-mount lenses I have are screw-drive).
07-07-2015, 04:38 PM   #298
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
You assume that Ricoh wants to keep the current user base. Perhaps it is so small, so cheap, so picky, so quirky that they are better off starting from zero and building an entire new user base?

Maybe not entirely, but maybe they think that the FF user base already left and so there is no reason to convince current Corolla drivers to buy a Lexus. Better to market to Mercedes buyers and convince them to switch.

I hear lots of whining that Pentax needs a cheap FF to take care of current user base. I think that is wishful thinking, or whining. "Please mr. Ricoh make me a cheap FF because I cannot afford an expensive one". Not sure that is going to work, I think they are moving on and targeting people who can and will buy a $3,500 camera.
This I fully agree. I have budget for fullframe, and my FF target is like Nikon D810, Nikon Df, Canon 5DM3, or Sony A7RII.
If pentax make premium FF body, one can just imagine this is going to be above those FF camera I mentioned. Imagine if, new BSI sensor 42 Mpix, and combined with new milbeaut chip that is going to be used by Nikon D5 (here is the rumour) , than nobody will complain about the price. And that will make the current user base proud, and some will start saving to buy the ultimate machine.

Subsequently, Pentax may introduce 2nd body FF camera with the lower specs to feed the current users who think what they need is only APSC.
The problem is, whether Ricoh can expand AF system dramatically.
07-07-2015, 04:53 PM   #299
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Why is everyone in a stew about a mythical camera with unknown specs and unknown pricing and unknown release date, purely over some cryptic comment on a Chinese forum?

I think it is clear that Pentax is not dumb and they will release an appropriately specified camera for the price that they have chosen. There will certainly be an early adopter tax, as usual and the price will drop over time. How low it goes depends a lot on target sales and how the camera sells. Once again, Pentax isn't stupid and they will be watching their sales figures and if they aren't hitting their goals, then they will drop the price till they do.

Clearly they are cherry picking the market niche they are going for. They don't need (or plan) to release a bunch of full frame cameras. Just one. And that camera is going to have everything in it they think is needed to let it sell well against the other cameras in the marketplace.

As to the lenses they have released, once again, the question is one of performance versus cost. We don't really know how the performance will be on the 70-200, but it looks good so far. Once again, though, the release cost is unlikely to be the long term price and these lenses will end up selling for similar prices to comparable Canon/Nikon lenses (well, of course excluding the fact that this lens lacks fluorite elements).

I hate the whole fixation on release price. My experience with Pentax really has been good. Every camera I have purchased was selling for similar prices to Canon/Nikon gear when I bought it. I have more trouble comparing lenses like the FA limiteds or DA limiteds to Canon/Nikon offerings, but certainly if you choose times when lenses are discounted, there are plenty of times when there are real deals to be had on Pentax lenses.

There is a plan, people. If Pentax is going to release a full frame camera, it will be for the market that exists now, not for some pie in the sky dream that they hope to create.
07-07-2015, 04:57 PM   #300
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Why is everyone in a stew about a mythical camera with unknown specs and unknown pricing and unknown release date, purely over some cryptic comment on a Chinese forum?
Why does the scorpion sting the frog?
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