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08-12-2015, 05:42 AM   #511
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
It's seems to follow that the 15-30 on Pentax's lens road map will be a re-engineered/rebadged Tamron lens. I'm not aware of any other zoom lenses covering that exact range for a full frame camera.
Follow from what?

---------- Post added 08-12-15 at 02:45 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Why?
Because Tamron lenses are designed from a totally different perspective from the majority of brand lenses. They are designed to outcompete on price to the manufacturers own lenses and to sell in large volumes. They are typically far worse in terms of particularly built quality and coatings; areas where savings are large. Pentax previous collaboratory "high-end lens, the DA* 16-50, is certainly not multicoated whatever Pentax may claim....

08-12-2015, 05:47 AM   #512
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Why?

The guy (Jun Hirakawa) who designed the:
- FA* 85/1.4
- FA* 80-200/2.8
- FA77 Limited
- FA43 Limited
- DA* 55/1.4 SDM
Now works for Tamron. Hoya forced him to "retire". You don't want this guy designing new lenses for K-mount?
Point taken, what a brilliant, thoughtful man.

However, for anyone new to Pentax and thinking of buying an FF, too many rebadged Tamron or Tokina offerings may well be a turn-off. Any customer who needed a new set of lenses anyway would very likely be better off financially buying into Canon or Nikon and getting the Tamron/Tokina originals, thus saving themselves hundreds of $$$ for little or no loss of quality. A rebadge here or there, sure, I expect everyone does it, but use with caution ...
08-12-2015, 06:01 AM   #513
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Note that, as Tamron themselves said in 2014:
QuoteQuote:
"Tamron has shifted more to OEM business. Now, we have around two thirds of our business in OEM, mainly dealing with camera manufacturers,” said Koji Masunari, GM of Tamron. “To collaborate with camera manufacturers, it is important to stay flexible to match their specific needs.” Masunari elaborated that Tamron is able to provide 20 to 30 types of one single product model to tailor to a camera manufacturer's requirements.''
Tamron explores new territories

So it's not just re-badging existing lines, they create products specifically for their customers - and with no necessary connection to existing Tamron retail products.
08-12-2015, 06:01 AM   #514
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Follow from what?

---------- Post added 08-12-15 at 02:45 PM ----------



Because Tamron lenses are designed from a totally different perspective from the majority of brand lenses. They are designed to outcompete on price to the manufacturers own lenses and to sell in large volumes. They are typically far worse in terms of particularly built quality and coatings; areas where savings are large. Pentax previous collaboratory "high-end lens, the DA* 16-50, is certainly not multicoated whatever Pentax may claim....
The Zeiss Batis 85mm appears to be a Tamron design. Just because Tamron designs a lens doesn't mean it is built by Tamron. You are completely missing the conversation. Ricoh can buy the design and still manufacture it in their facility with their HD/Aerobright coatings and to Ricoh's quality standards.

08-12-2015, 06:03 AM   #515
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I really don't think Pentax/Ricoh would rebadge the Tamron 15-30mm; as Pal said, its build would be a problem. A Pentax lens based on the same optics, though, with Pentax-designed barrels and the new AF motor... that Tamron is an excellent lens, it could work.
I won't exclude the possibility of Pentax designing their own version at this point. If they do, hopefully it will be every bit as good as the Tamron.

I also agree with mecrox, rebadging and even reusing only the optics can be a dangerous game, if done in excess.
08-12-2015, 06:22 AM   #516
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Does everyone here realize that Zeiss only manufactures their Cine line, Otus and maybe the Loxia line themselves? Has that hurt Zeiss? Has it hurt their reputation?

The idea that Ricoh can't outsource lens design or even manufacturing is completely absurd. Tomron has been making and designing G lenses for Sony.
08-12-2015, 06:26 AM - 1 Like   #517
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I personally, would love to see Pentax license the Tamron 15-30 optical formula, but manufacture it themselves, with their own sealing and coatings. I don't like the idea of them just rebadging the Tamron, though.
08-12-2015, 06:27 AM   #518
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Sure, lens design might be outsourced but from where have the idea that that Pentax have done so come from?

08-12-2015, 06:40 AM   #519
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Well, time to "rabble rouse"...

I couldn't care WHO makes a Pentax lens, as long as it is to their spec (which is so far superior to CaNikon mathematically and in materials). Each line has it's great designers, and the Pentax loss of Hirakawa-San, shows the pure level of incompetence at Hoya. Talk about a "plundering" crap firm. Being fair and balanced, I must say that Hoya and Kenko filters, however, are excellent for skipping across ponds. And their TC's could easily be used for baking torts in (allowing for wax paper fittings).

The 150-450 IS world class, as are other offerings from pentax. They need to "flush out the suckers"- kill redundancy in kit lenses. Offer a wide zoom, basic zoom, tele zoom, maybe a 1.8 normal (in DA only, FF would be a devaluing, stupid idea). Putting a crappy lens on ANY FF is the equivalent of putting clear plastic seat covers and painted plastic hub-caps on a Bentley. Just wrong... Pentax should take the ops capacity and R&D spends for the low end redundancies and put them into differentiated offerings for FF and High end DA.

If one assumes that Pentax is going after niche status in the High Ground (over the next 5 years), this fits. Many times we have heard that at investment banker meetings that Pentax was looking to be positioned once again as the Japanese Leica. Possible, but without focus, it will not happen...

Hoya was smart, and (for a lack of a better word) "prostituted the brand" to get the medical piece. They NEVER had any intentions beyond that.

I bore everyone with another revisit of the RP CEO interview of 12-15 months ago. The long game is already in motion.

Back to lens manufacturing... Use whoever you wish. Nothing wrong with using a sub, as long as you can sue them.... Never assume RP wont sue a poor quality sub. They will.
08-12-2015, 06:41 AM   #520
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Sure, lens design might be outsourced but from where have the idea that that Pentax have done so come from?
The DA 12-24 is a Tokina design.
08-12-2015, 06:44 AM   #521
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The DA 12-24 is a Tokina design.
And a solid lens at that...
08-12-2015, 06:53 AM   #522
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Does everyone here realize that Zeiss only manufactures their Cine line, Otus and maybe the Loxia line themselves? Has that hurt Zeiss? Has it hurt their reputation?

The idea that Ricoh can't outsource lens design or even manufacturing is completely absurd. Tomron has been making and designing G lenses for Sony.
The problem is not having e.g. Tamron custom designing excellent optics for Pentax (though, is there any need for that? ) The problem would be if many of the best Pentax lenses would be available - same optics in different barrels - for the competition as well. Cheaper. Much cheaper.
08-12-2015, 06:56 AM   #523
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Hey, it is a start. Pentax can certainly use a Tamron design initially and if they aren't satisfied with it, replace it down the road when they are caught up in other areas. But to launch the camera, they need 70-200 f2.8 (already done, I guess), 24-70 f2.8, 14/15-25/30 f2.8 and probably some sort of a kit lens. That's a tall order for a company the size of Pentax and if they can get help with one of the zooms, get a high quality optical design, there isn't anything wrong with that.
08-12-2015, 07:02 AM   #524
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Hey, it is a start. Pentax can certainly use a Tamron design initially and if they aren't satisfied with it, replace it down the road when they are caught up in other areas. But to launch the camera, they need 70-200 f2.8 (already done, I guess), 24-70 f2.8, 14/15-25/30 f2.8 and probably some sort of a kit lens. That's a tall order for a company the size of Pentax and if they can get help with one of the zooms, get a high quality optical design, there isn't anything wrong with that.
Simply adding some ED or Super ED glass, modern HD/Aerobright coating, and new AF to existing designs could go a long way. The Zeiss Loxia lenses are simply that and I don't hear people complaining about the IQ of the Planar Loxia. The 77mm is a Planar design that with some slight improvements, modern ED/SED glass, new coatings, & AF would still be an simple update. The 31mm is also a lens that doesn't need a compete redesign.
08-12-2015, 07:19 AM   #525
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Does everyone here realize that Zeiss only manufactures their Cine line, Otus and maybe the Loxia line themselves? Has that hurt Zeiss? Has it hurt their reputation?

The idea that Ricoh can't outsource lens design or even manufacturing is completely absurd. Tomron has been making and designing G lenses for Sony.
Yes... I had a short inside view of the R&D labs of zeiss (Oberkochen), there are few lens designers : for cine lenses, only 3 designers, and around 8-10 for the photo lens design. That's it...
These figures are normal for the optical design area, but with the current lens production of Zeiss it is not possible that all optical formulas are designed by Zeiss
They released an article about their production partnerships : Sony and ZEISS: What photographers should know about the partnership | Camera Lens Blog
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