3 Rumors

**unkipunki** · 06-24-2015, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by mee

Even with the new FF 42MP BSI sensor? It is all hype now.. but I suspect it will be a challenger to the 645Z in some (important ways).

There is an article on DPR that compares the new Canon 5Ds to the 645Z and the differences in resolution seem minimal.

I can't see the 42 MP sensor competing on signal to noise ratio, it seems technologically impossible at present. The 5Ds article was unconvincing to me when I read it, can't specifically remember why, but I know it can't take a serviceable picture of a playing puppy at ISO 25,600 whereas the Z can.

**monochrome** · 06-24-2015, 06:12 PM

The key word in the OP's post is 'rumors'.

I have serious doubts RIAC would invest capital and salaries in a full-time service center. Everything else is outsourced. It just seems to me there are more important places to invest capital first.

Which then casts doubt on the validity of the other two 'gossip threads'.

**Bruce Clark** · 06-24-2015, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by VoiceOfReason

I'd love to have more aftermarket options. If I can get that 150-600 from either Tamron or Sigma I will.

Hear hear to that.

mee · 06-24-2015, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

The key word in the OP's post is 'rumors'.

I have serious doubts RIAC would invest capital and salaries in a full-time service center. Everything else is outsourced. It just seems to me there are more important places to invest capital first.

Which then casts doubt on the validity of the other two 'gossip threads'.

Why would they tell a customer in a camera shop Ricoh's closely guarded plans? why would Ricoh tell them their plans?? No idea.. but it seems a wonderful idea to have non-outsourced service center. Maybe we can even talk about getting the parts store open again too.

stevebrot · 06-24-2015, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by mee

That said, #1 has me the most excited (if true). We could reallllllyyyyyy
use company supplied service here instead of the contracted stuff we've got now.

I agree. The fact they are playing with the Big Boys (Pro/Semi-Pro medium format) pretty much means they have to have tighter control over post-sales support.

Originally posted by mee

Well.. I figured sheer resolution would be the desire of someone going MF (landscapes and portraiture)

It is difficult to explain, but noise is probably a bigger issue for landscape people over resolution. The 645Z has very, very little of the former and tons of the latter. The new Sony sensor is supposed to have very low noise due to its BSI design, but how low at the 40.2 density is the big question.

As for portraiture...more detail is usually not that good a thing. More important is tons of DOF control which medium format cameras have in spades.

Steve

rawr · 06-24-2015, 07:19 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by monochrome

a full-time service center.

It may be tied in with their experience running their own service centres for the other parts of the Ricoh business (photo-copiers, data projectors etc), all of which have an imaging component too. It might be very economical for them to incorporate Pentax/Ricoh camera repairs into that.

It may also have something to do with Ricoh's aspirations to attract more big-spending photo professionals to the brand. A full-time US service centre could provide faster turn-around for service, repairs and maintenance, which pros certainly value.

stevebrot · 06-24-2015, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by unkipunki

I can't see the 42 MP sensor competing on signal to noise ratio, it seems technologically impossible at present

We will have to wait until the first independent tests/reviews of the A7rII. The BPI design is supposed to enhance the S/N ratio, though by how much is hard to say. Also an unknown is whether a vanilla (no on-sensor PDAF) version of the 42 Mpickle sensor exists.

Steve

IchabodCrane · 06-24-2015, 07:25 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

I seriously doubt a Tamron rep knows anything about a Pentax FF apart from what he reads on this forum...

I believe the OP said he overheard a conversation between the two. I didn't detect from the way it was stated that the Tamron rep was the one divulging the info. As for Tamron coming out with a new K-mount lens in response, it wouldn't have anything to do with the specific sensor but rather that there will be a FF camera which, of course, is public info.

mee · 06-24-2015, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

I agree. The fact they are playing with the Big Boys (Pro/Semi-Pro medium format) pretty much means they have to have tighter control over post-sales support.

It is difficult to explain, but noise is probably a bigger issue for landscape people over resolution. The 645Z has very, very little of the former and tons of the latter. The new Sony sensor is supposed to have very low noise due to its BSI design, but how low at the 40.2 density is the big question.

As for portraiture...more detail is usually not that good a thing. More important is tons of DOF control which medium format cameras have in spades.

Ah but if one is shooting MF landscapes, I'd imagine they'd be using a very sturdy tripod. So would ISO really matter? One can drag the shutter all they want to properly expose.

For portraiture, that is likely in a studio environment thus with controlled lighting so ISO doesn't seem like it would play a big role there either? I just don't see high ISO induced noise being an issue. Actually, I don't see it being at issue at FF so definitely not at MF sensor sizes.

I think modern FF is the 'close enough to rival, yet (slightly) smaller and (definitely) lower cost option'

Wired · 06-24-2015, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by Adam

Having Pentax strike a deal with Tamron would be a clever move, since they will have so few lenses of their own to begin with.

still got more than Sony.

Rupert · 06-24-2015, 08:11 PM

I got nothing here.....I'm not a FF buyer, but I can never pass up a good rumor thread!

Regards!

HYS · 06-24-2015, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by mee

And also.. if true.. then what makes a user want a 645Z system over this?

A new, updated 645Z. It will be developed too.

**kiwi_jono** · 06-24-2015, 10:08 PM

Sensor performance is improving steadily.
Surprised how well the Canon 5Ds stacks up against the 645Z ( Canon EOS 5DS / 5DS R First Impressions Review: Digital Photography Review ). Although the 645Z still looks better (especially very high ISO) to me.

bossa · 06-24-2015, 11:34 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Adam

Having Pentax strike a deal with Tamron would be a clever move, since they will have so few lenses of their own to begin with.

People don't seem to mention the fact that Tamron makes an unusual 15-30mm zoom and yet there's one in Pentax's Lens Road Map. That seems a little too coincidental to me.

CDW · 06-24-2015, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by kiwi_jono

Sensor performance is improving steadily.
Surprised how well the Canon 5Ds stacks up against the 645Z ( Canon EOS 5DS / 5DS R First Impressions Review: Digital Photography Review ). Although the 645Z still looks better (especially very high ISO) to me.

For night sky and other low light landscape work, the 645Z is really superb. I would consider the new Pentax FF as a backup but an A7RII with an adapter and Canon lenses is a bit more attractive. Canon strength at the present is their lens lineup. The new 5s are interesting but not as much as Pentax, SONY or Nikon bodies equipped with SONY sensors that can deliver a credible, usable image five stops underexposed. When Canon can deliver a new sensor that is capable of that feat without banding or obvious gross noise in the shadows, then they'll be back in the competition.

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06-24-2015, 05:50 PM	#16
unkipunki Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: South Lochaweside, Argyll Photos: Gallery Posts: 615	Originally posted by mee Even with the new FF 42MP BSI sensor? It is all hype now.. but I suspect it will be a challenger to the 645Z in some (important ways). There is an article on DPR that compares the new Canon 5Ds to the 645Z and the differences in resolution seem minimal. I can't see the 42 MP sensor competing on signal to noise ratio, it seems technologically impossible at present. The 5Ds article was unconvincing to me when I read it, can't specifically remember why, but I know it can't take a serviceable picture of a playing puppy at ISO 25,600 whereas the Z can.

06-24-2015, 06:12 PM	#17
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	The key word in the OP's post is 'rumors'. I have serious doubts RIAC would invest capital and salaries in a full-time service center. Everything else is outsourced. It just seems to me there are more important places to invest capital first. Which then casts doubt on the validity of the other two 'gossip threads'.

06-24-2015, 06:45 PM	#18
Bruce Clark Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Ocean Grove, Victoria Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,458	Originally posted by VoiceOfReason I'd love to have more aftermarket options. If I can get that 150-600 from either Tamron or Sigma I will. Hear hear to that.

06-24-2015, 06:53 PM	#19
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by monochrome The key word in the OP's post is 'rumors'. I have serious doubts RIAC would invest capital and salaries in a full-time service center. Everything else is outsourced. It just seems to me there are more important places to invest capital first. Which then casts doubt on the validity of the other two 'gossip threads'. Why would they tell a customer in a camera shop Ricoh's closely guarded plans? why would Ricoh tell them their plans?? No idea.. but it seems a wonderful idea to have non-outsourced service center. Maybe we can even talk about getting the parts store open again too.

06-24-2015, 07:13 PM	#20
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by mee That said, #1 has me the most excited (if true). We could reallllllyyyyyy use company supplied service here instead of the contracted stuff we've got now. I agree. The fact they are playing with the Big Boys (Pro/Semi-Pro medium format) pretty much means they have to have tighter control over post-sales support. Originally posted by mee Well.. I figured sheer resolution would be the desire of someone going MF (landscapes and portraiture) It is difficult to explain, but noise is probably a bigger issue for landscape people over resolution. The 645Z has very, very little of the former and tons of the latter. The new Sony sensor is supposed to have very low noise due to its BSI design, but how low at the 40.2 density is the big question. As for portraiture...more detail is usually not that good a thing. More important is tons of DOF control which medium format cameras have in spades. Steve

06-24-2015, 07:19 PM - 1 Like	#21
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by monochrome a full-time service center. It may be tied in with their experience running their own service centres for the other parts of the Ricoh business (photo-copiers, data projectors etc), all of which have an imaging component too. It might be very economical for them to incorporate Pentax/Ricoh camera repairs into that. It may also have something to do with Ricoh's aspirations to attract more big-spending photo professionals to the brand. A full-time US service centre could provide faster turn-around for service, repairs and maintenance, which pros certainly value.

06-24-2015, 07:24 PM	#22
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by unkipunki I can't see the 42 MP sensor competing on signal to noise ratio, it seems technologically impossible at present We will have to wait until the first independent tests/reviews of the A7rII. The BPI design is supposed to enhance the S/N ratio, though by how much is hard to say. Also an unknown is whether a vanilla (no on-sensor PDAF) version of the 42 Mpickle sensor exists. Steve

06-24-2015, 07:25 PM - 1 Like	#23
IchabodCrane Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,728	Originally posted by Pål Jensen I seriously doubt a Tamron rep knows anything about a Pentax FF apart from what he reads on this forum... I believe the OP said he overheard a conversation between the two. I didn't detect from the way it was stated that the Tamron rep was the one divulging the info. As for Tamron coming out with a new K-mount lens in response, it wouldn't have anything to do with the specific sensor but rather that there will be a FF camera which, of course, is public info.

06-24-2015, 07:35 PM	#24
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by stevebrot I agree. The fact they are playing with the Big Boys (Pro/Semi-Pro medium format) pretty much means they have to have tighter control over post-sales support. It is difficult to explain, but noise is probably a bigger issue for landscape people over resolution. The 645Z has very, very little of the former and tons of the latter. The new Sony sensor is supposed to have very low noise due to its BSI design, but how low at the 40.2 density is the big question. As for portraiture...more detail is usually not that good a thing. More important is tons of DOF control which medium format cameras have in spades. Ah but if one is shooting MF landscapes, I'd imagine they'd be using a very sturdy tripod. So would ISO really matter? One can drag the shutter all they want to properly expose. For portraiture, that is likely in a studio environment thus with controlled lighting so ISO doesn't seem like it would play a big role there either? I just don't see high ISO induced noise being an issue. Actually, I don't see it being at issue at FF so definitely not at MF sensor sizes. I think modern FF is the 'close enough to rival, yet (slightly) smaller and (definitely) lower cost option'

06-24-2015, 07:50 PM	#25
Wired Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,519	Originally posted by Adam Having Pentax strike a deal with Tamron would be a clever move, since they will have so few lenses of their own to begin with. still got more than Sony.

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06-24-2015, 08:11 PM	#26
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	I got nothing here.....I'm not a FF buyer, but I can never pass up a good rumor thread! Regards!

06-24-2015, 10:01 PM	#27
HYS Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 377	Originally posted by mee And also.. if true.. then what makes a user want a 645Z system over this? A new, updated 645Z. It will be developed too.

06-24-2015, 10:08 PM	#28
kiwi_jono Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,437	Sensor performance is improving steadily. Surprised how well the Canon 5Ds stacks up against the 645Z ( Canon EOS 5DS / 5DS R First Impressions Review: Digital Photography Review ). Although the 645Z still looks better (especially very high ISO) to me.

06-24-2015, 11:34 PM - 1 Like	#29
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	Originally posted by Adam Having Pentax strike a deal with Tamron would be a clever move, since they will have so few lenses of their own to begin with. People don't seem to mention the fact that Tamron makes an unusual 15-30mm zoom and yet there's one in Pentax's Lens Road Map. That seems a little too coincidental to me.

06-24-2015, 11:49 PM	#30
CDW Site Supporter Join Date: May 2011 Location: Big Island, Hawaii & Utah Posts: 457	Originally posted by kiwi_jono Sensor performance is improving steadily. Surprised how well the Canon 5Ds stacks up against the 645Z ( Canon EOS 5DS / 5DS R First Impressions Review: Digital Photography Review ). Although the 645Z still looks better (especially very high ISO) to me. For night sky and other low light landscape work, the 645Z is really superb. I would consider the new Pentax FF as a backup but an A7RII with an adapter and Canon lenses is a bit more attractive. Canon strength at the present is their lens lineup. The new 5s are interesting but not as much as Pentax, SONY or Nikon bodies equipped with SONY sensors that can deliver a credible, usable image five stops underexposed. When Canon can deliver a new sensor that is capable of that feat without banding or obvious gross noise in the shadows, then they'll be back in the competition.