New APSC Pentax by early 2016, using Sony A7000 sensor?

Zygonyx · 08-17-2015, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by Nicolas06

... 55-300, a screw drive lense that one can get used for 150$ !

Even when we get theses new expensives FF lenses, this is still not at good at other brands... We will need to wait for 1-2 more generation of bodies, and also to get most of the current APSC lenses upgraded too to get great AF... That's 5 years away... before this will be only for people that can spend 5000$+ on gear.

I could prove you that the good old screwdriven lenses like FA*85/1.4 or FA*300-600 are not behind competition in term of AF speed, with K-3 or even K-5.
The lag time for fixed focus, or continuous focus capabilities lie much more in body's algorythms than anything else.
And yes, the last D-FA DC engines are now matching the best screwdriven lenses speeds.

Nicolas06 · 08-17-2015, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by Glorfindelrb

If your answer has no link with my message... don't quote me.

It has a link you said AF doesn't make the picture because after all if the picture is totally blury it doesn't count... Because you could focus manually. You said the sensor made the image. I said that you didn't need a sensor, a very old and basic camera make the picture. And some even do it for the sports.

That doesn't mean that it will be as easy, as practical and you'll not miss many shoots.

thibs · 08-18-2015, 01:00 AM

Mmm this thread may need a mod.

**woodywesty** · 08-18-2015, 03:55 AM

Originally posted by thibs

Mmm this thread may need a mod.

You're being polite...

thibs · 08-18-2015, 04:09 AM

Originally posted by woodywesty

You're being polite...

Yes

ljohnsen · 08-22-2015, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by dadipentak

No! FF is a frivolous distraction from more important APS-C development.

I agree, and that is what I said in the survey.

goubejp · 08-22-2015, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

I could prove you that the good old screwdriven lenses like FA*85/1.4 or FA*300-600 are not behind competition in term of AF speed, with K-3 or even K-5.
The lag time for fixed focus, or continuous focus capabilities lie much more in body's algorythms than anything else.
And yes, the last D-FA DC engines are now matching the best screwdriven lenses speeds.

Really ? I have had FA*600 and FA*85, sold last month, and I still own FA*300 f2.8 and I can tell you that AF is slower than the Nikon counterparts.In AF-S the lens hunts several times before acquiring the focus. And AF engines of super-tele allows faster focusing that screw driven AF.

MikePerham · 08-22-2015, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by abacus07

I am hoping that this comes out earlier in 2016 rather than later. My original K-5 (purchased 2ish years after launch) is getting a little worn and I think I will stay with APSC. It's not the price of the FF camera, it's the new LBA that would kill me. I could use my K24 but... I would have to get a new zoom. I would need... APSC is better. APSC is better. APSC is better. for me.

Your right, it's not the camera but the cost of replacing all those DA* lenses with new FF DA* lenses that is the killer for me.

thibs · 08-22-2015, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by goubejp

Really ? I have had FA*600 and FA*85, sold last month, and I still own FA*300 f2.8 and I can tell you that AF is slower than the Nikon counterparts.In AF-S the lens hunts several times before acquiring the focus. And AF engines of super-tele allows faster focusing that screw driven AF.

That's mainly the camera's fault, not the lens, IMO.

Nicolas06 · 08-22-2015, 02:27 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by thibs

That's mainly the camera's fault, not the lens, IMO.

Ahah !

There not only speed you know. Modern lenses have more advenced foccussing mechanisms. For example they can track how the focus change, accelerate and decelerate and adapt to stop exactly where needed. Also the in lense motor can be optimized for the precision and speed the lense need rather than being a general purpose compromize in the camera body that need to work with all lenses.

If you use both latest camera and lenses (for example from Canikon) you'll find the performance to be significantly better than the best screw drive lenses.

Now that matter mostly if critical AF situations. That may not be necessary for many occasions except sports/action shooting.

Zygonyx · 08-22-2015, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by goubejp

Really ? I have had FA*600 and FA*85, sold last month, and I still own FA*300 f2.8 and I can tell you that AF is slower than the Nikon counterparts.In AF-S the lens hunts several times before acquiring the focus. And AF engines of super-tele allows faster focusing that screw driven AF.

Engine speed >< AF focussing time.
Though i admit i didn't try the very last Nikon tele versions.
Btw, you seem to be well preparing for FF.

thibs · 08-23-2015, 06:20 AM

Originally posted by Nicolas06

Ahah !

There not only speed you know. Modern lenses have more advenced foccussing mechanisms. For example they can track how the focus change, accelerate and decelerate and adapt to stop exactly where needed. Also the in lense motor can be optimized for the precision and speed the lense need rather than being a general purpose compromize in the camera body that need to work with all lenses.

If you use both latest camera and lenses (for example from Canikon) you'll find the performance to be significantly better than the best screw drive lenses.

Now that matter mostly if critical AF situations. That may not be necessary for many occasions except sports/action shooting.

Reread what I wrote.
Reread you response and try to find why you even bothered to reply.

Nicolas06 · 08-23-2015, 07:10 AM

Originally posted by thibs

Reread what I wrote.
Reread you response and try to find why you even bothered to reply.

I give you direct the solution to you as apparently you don't get why I responded: modern lens do thing that old don't... The best body will not replace missing components on the lenses.

MikePerham · 08-23-2015, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

You may speculate so.
But people now shooting FF have no intention to go APSC ever again in their life. Nobody of those *I* know, at least.

If anything, they add smaller than APSC gear to their arsenal, like L/RX100.

BTW, a pro-level 24-70/2.8 may be heavy and expensive. But I found it worth every penny. Between an RX100 24-70 and FF 24-70, there is no room for APSC. The RX100 is (in equivalent terms) an F/4.9-7.6 lens, the FF F/2.8 of course. An APSC kit zoom is worse, a DA* 16-50/2.8 is an F/4, just a bit better than the RX100.

So, the advantage of an APSC dSLR with zoom is that it is cheaper. Otherwise, it hase been eaten up from below and above. Already.

The only room for APSC I can see in the foreseeable future are pro-level APSC mirrorless cameras like NX1 or A7000. When they beat SLRs in something. But here again, cameras like the A7 may eat that cake too.

No question that FF is better than APS-C ...the issue here is cost. Not so much for the body but the lenses. For those of us who invested in top of the line APS-C lenses, there is a substantial investment and unless you have funds to make the transition to FF glass, your going to stay with APS-C; so hopefully they continue development of that format. Also, smaller lighter benefits, again more so for the glass than the bodies.

reh321 · 08-23-2015, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by MikePerham

No question that FF is better than APS-C ...the issue here is cost. Not so much for the body but the lenses. For those of us who invested in top of the line APS-C lenses, there is a substantial investment and unless you have funds to make the transition to FF glass, your going to stay with APS-C; so hopefully they continue development of that format. Also, smaller lighter benefits, again more so for the glass than the bodies.

And, as I regularly say, MF is better than FF, because size is always an advantage, but I haven't seen any great movement towards MF, so I don't expect any great movement away from APS-C either.

08-22-2015, 08:35 PM	#371
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,032	Originally posted by goubejp Really ? I have had FA600 and FA85, sold last month, and I still own FA300 f2.8 and I can tell you that AF is slower than the Nikon counterparts.In AF-S the lens hunts several times before acquiring the focus. And AF engines of super-tele allows faster focusing that screw driven AF. Engine speed >< AF focussing time. Though i admit i didn't try the very last Nikon tele versions. Btw, you seem to be well preparing for FF. Last edited by Zygonyx; 08-22-2015 at 08:42 PM.*

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08-17-2015, 07:08 PM	#361
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,032	Originally posted by Nicolas06 ... 55-300, a screw drive lense that one can get used for 150$ ! Even when we get theses new expensives FF lenses, this is still not at good at other brands... We will need to wait for 1-2 more generation of bodies, and also to get most of the current APSC lenses upgraded too to get great AF... That's 5 years away... before this will be only for people that can spend 5000$+ on gear. I could prove you that the good old screwdriven lenses like FA85/1.4 or FA300-600 are not behind competition in term of AF speed, with K-3 or even K-5. The lag time for fixed focus, or continuous focus capabilities lie much more in body's algorythms than anything else. And yes, the last D-FA DC engines are now matching the best screwdriven lenses speeds.

08-17-2015, 11:06 PM	#362
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by Glorfindelrb If your answer has no link with my message... don't quote me. It has a link you said AF doesn't make the picture because after all if the picture is totally blury it doesn't count... Because you could focus manually. You said the sensor made the image. I said that you didn't need a sensor, a very old and basic camera make the picture. And some even do it for the sports. That doesn't mean that it will be as easy, as practical and you'll not miss many shoots.

08-18-2015, 01:00 AM	#363
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Mmm this thread may need a mod.

08-18-2015, 03:55 AM	#364
woodywesty Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Northern Wisconsin Posts: 725	Originally posted by thibs Mmm this thread may need a mod. You're being polite...

08-18-2015, 04:09 AM	#365
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by woodywesty You're being polite... Yes

08-22-2015, 12:26 PM	#366
ljohnsen New Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 13	Originally posted by dadipentak No! FF is a frivolous distraction from more important APS-C development. I agree, and that is what I said in the survey.

08-22-2015, 12:53 PM	#367
goubejp Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: France Photos: Albums Posts: 804	Originally posted by Zygonyx I could prove you that the good old screwdriven lenses like FA85/1.4 or FA300-600 are not behind competition in term of AF speed, with K-3 or even K-5. The lag time for fixed focus, or continuous focus capabilities lie much more in body's algorythms than anything else. And yes, the last D-FA DC engines are now matching the best screwdriven lenses speeds. Really ? I have had FA600 and FA85, sold last month, and I still own FA*300 f2.8 and I can tell you that AF is slower than the Nikon counterparts.In AF-S the lens hunts several times before acquiring the focus. And AF engines of super-tele allows faster focusing that screw driven AF.

08-22-2015, 01:23 PM	#368
MikePerham Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Prince George, BC Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 642	Originally posted by abacus07 I am hoping that this comes out earlier in 2016 rather than later. My original K-5 (purchased 2ish years after launch) is getting a little worn and I think I will stay with APSC. It's not the price of the FF camera, it's the new LBA that would kill me. I could use my K24 but... I would have to get a new zoom. I would need... APSC is better. APSC is better. APSC is better. for me. Your right, it's not the camera but the cost of replacing all those DA* lenses with new FF DA* lenses that is the killer for me.

08-22-2015, 01:31 PM	#369
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by goubejp Really ? I have had FA600 and FA85, sold last month, and I still own FA*300 f2.8 and I can tell you that AF is slower than the Nikon counterparts.In AF-S the lens hunts several times before acquiring the focus. And AF engines of super-tele allows faster focusing that screw driven AF. That's mainly the camera's fault, not the lens, IMO.

08-22-2015, 02:27 PM - 1 Like	#370
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by thibs That's mainly the camera's fault, not the lens, IMO. Ahah ! There not only speed you know. Modern lenses have more advenced foccussing mechanisms. For example they can track how the focus change, accelerate and decelerate and adapt to stop exactly where needed. Also the in lense motor can be optimized for the precision and speed the lense need rather than being a general purpose compromize in the camera body that need to work with all lenses. If you use both latest camera and lenses (for example from Canikon) you'll find the performance to be significantly better than the best screw drive lenses. Now that matter mostly if critical AF situations. That may not be necessary for many occasions except sports/action shooting.

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08-23-2015, 06:20 AM	#372
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Nicolas06 Ahah ! There not only speed you know. Modern lenses have more advenced foccussing mechanisms. For example they can track how the focus change, accelerate and decelerate and adapt to stop exactly where needed. Also the in lense motor can be optimized for the precision and speed the lense need rather than being a general purpose compromize in the camera body that need to work with all lenses. If you use both latest camera and lenses (for example from Canikon) you'll find the performance to be significantly better than the best screw drive lenses. Now that matter mostly if critical AF situations. That may not be necessary for many occasions except sports/action shooting. Reread what I wrote. Reread you response and try to find why you even bothered to reply.

08-23-2015, 07:10 AM	#373
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by thibs Reread what I wrote. Reread you response and try to find why you even bothered to reply. I give you direct the solution to you as apparently you don't get why I responded: modern lens do thing that old don't... The best body will not replace missing components on the lenses.

08-23-2015, 07:49 AM	#374
MikePerham Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Prince George, BC Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 642	Originally posted by falconeye You may speculate so. But people now shooting FF have no intention to go APSC ever again in their life. Nobody of those I know, at least. If anything, they add smaller than APSC gear to their arsenal, like L/RX100. BTW, a pro-level 24-70/2.8 may be heavy and expensive. But I found it worth every penny. Between an RX100 24-70 and FF 24-70, there is no room for APSC. The RX100 is (in equivalent terms) an F/4.9-7.6 lens, the FF F/2.8 of course. An APSC kit zoom is worse, a DA* 16-50/2.8 is an F/4, just a bit better than the RX100. So, the advantage of an APSC dSLR with zoom is that it is cheaper. Otherwise, it hase been eaten up from below and above. Already. The only room for APSC I can see in the foreseeable future are pro-level APSC mirrorless cameras like NX1 or A7000. When they beat SLRs in something. But here again, cameras like the A7 may eat that cake too. No question that FF is better than APS-C ...the issue here is cost. Not so much for the body but the lenses. For those of us who invested in top of the line APS-C lenses, there is a substantial investment and unless you have funds to make the transition to FF glass, your going to stay with APS-C; so hopefully they continue development of that format. Also, smaller lighter benefits, again more so for the glass than the bodies.

08-23-2015, 09:10 AM	#375
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,175	Originally posted by MikePerham No question that FF is better than APS-C ...the issue here is cost. Not so much for the body but the lenses. For those of us who invested in top of the line APS-C lenses, there is a substantial investment and unless you have funds to make the transition to FF glass, your going to stay with APS-C; so hopefully they continue development of that format. Also, smaller lighter benefits, again more so for the glass than the bodies. And, as I regularly say, MF is better than FF, because size is always an advantage, but I haven't seen any great movement towards MF, so I don't expect any great movement away from APS-C either.