Originally posted by monochrome Did Film industry chemists write each other letters before the Internet?
They probably did. There are some famous personal letters written by scientists to each other to think things trough
Actually, to let you participate, have a look at
->
Pentax K-3 II : Measurements - DxOMark
And wonder how its "white balance scale" numbers, rewritten as rgb, is nothing but this
◼︎ Originally posted by Class A the initial white balancing should involve constants (a_i), not just factors (t_i) (with t_i being the "white balance scales").
Yes, that's basically what I tried to say. Still linear, but with non-zero offsets.
Originally posted by Class A The slider primarily affects dark tones and it would make sense for it to essentially be a way to address a hue bias from the sensor, i.e,. control the a_i constants. This view appears to be
supported by a post from Eric Chan, one of the ACR developers.
Thanks for this link. Very interesting, I did not know it.
Eric seems to assume that the black clipping may only need a shift between green and magenta, with black clipping being controlled by the black level.
And it does help for sure. However, I have to adjust this on an image per image base which is something I'd rather like to avoid.
Here is what I currently need to do when I
heavily push shadows:
- Avoid white balance below 3000K
- Dial down vignetting correction to zero (as it boosts magenta in the corners, same "bug" of assuming zero a)
- Adjust camera calibration shadow tint to like -5
- Add shadow split toning with hue around 150
- Add a little hightlight split toning with hue around 330 to compensate
- Set black clipping to remove remaining artefacts
This often gives me excellent results, up to boosts of 6EV in the shadows even at ISO 800. (with a D800, a K-5/K-3 should be the same around ISO 400).
The shadow tint slider does certainly help. But I'd rather like to have a sensor with zero a_i to start with (which was the initial question).
Originally posted by Class A So perhaps your hypothesis is already taken care of?
Maybe I'm missing some finer point or am just mistaken in my assumptions about ACR.
I understand that cutting off noise below a blackpoint that is chosen too high is detrimental to proper denoising.
However, could that not be addressed by first performing a linear white balance transform (using appropriate (non-zero)) and then reintroduce a common (now neutral) bias in order to ensure all values are non-negative?
There maybe is no easy solution. Theoretically, an image would have to allow for negative pixel values. If displayed at a 1:1 scale, negative values would be clipped to zero. At a smaller scale though, pixels would be averaged (binned) and only the remainder would be clipped to zero.
Assume, at the 1:1 scale with a very noisy image with zero light input, half of the pixels would be rather bright (the other half being negative and appearing black) and the image would appear to have a glow / lack of contrast.
At a smaller scale like 10:1 though, 100 pixels would be binned and their fluctuation is reduced to 1/10, i.e., still half the pixels would appear non-black but much darker than before. Downsampling the image made it darker in the shadows and more contrasty.
In other words, traditional black clipping with no negative pixel values, if done at all and if done properly, would have to depend on the scale of magnification (a smaller black clipping value at smaller scale).
I fear all of this is not properly being taken care of. And some of the black clipping may be done by the sensor itself. Ideally, shadows should have no cast whatever be the white balance. But they do have.