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07-15-2015, 10:43 AM - 1 Like   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
At a general photo discussion site where I'm a regular, one of the Canikon fanboys told me outright that Pentax cameras are OK, but serious photographers won't be interested until Ricoh provides better support, primarily in repair facilities, because a serious guy needs quick response to his problems.
Serious cameras don't need repair....

07-15-2015, 12:05 PM   #122
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And i don't think Ricoh are lagging behind competition in this respect...
07-15-2015, 03:47 PM   #123
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Many 'serious' and even working 'pro' Canikon users also heavily rely on lenses from Sigma, Tamron, Zeiss (or even SamYang) to do their important work. Many of those lenses are also used by 'serious' Pentax users.

All those lenses sometimes need repairs or adjustments. I don't see any special treatment being offered to Sigma or Tamron users, for example, just because they have a Canon or Nikon instead of a Sony or Pentax.

And many 'serious' Canikon users also rely third-party flash equipment from Metz, YongNuo, Elinchrom; software from Adobe and Capture One; etc etc. They would get the same treatment as Pentax users if something goes wrong with their equipment or they have a support request.

So support and reliability for 'serious' users can involve assessing more than just what brand body they use.
07-15-2015, 04:13 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by woodywesty Quote
I wonder if Canon and Nikon users in the US have as awful repair service as Pentax users have?
That is a question to which I am very interested in knowing the answer too. Pentax support seems to be really really terrible these days..

07-15-2015, 06:12 PM   #125
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Didn't someone on another thread (3 rumors?) say a Tamron Rep told him Ricoh is establishing a company-owned Pentax Service Center in the Ricoh service center complex (wherever that is)?

I doubt it - but that would be a small earthquake.
07-15-2015, 06:28 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Didn't someone on another thread (3 rumors?) say a Tamron Rep told him Ricoh is establishing a company-owned Pentax Service Center in the Ricoh service center complex (wherever that is)?

I doubt it - but that would be a small earthquake.

Yes but that is just a rumor... when it comes to companies, I wouldn't bank until the product is released..


It would be rather huge for Ricoh/Pentax.. esp if the service excels. More so than the FF system itself I think.. just a really low-hassle, reputable, quick service center. Instead of (seemingly) contracting it out to the lowest bidder (that already seems overwhelmed from other contract service).
07-15-2015, 07:05 PM   #127
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Well it would shake things up, that's for sure.
07-15-2015, 07:50 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Pentax support seems to be really really terrible these days..
Unfortunately Roger Cicala hasn't done one of these for a while, and hasn't included Pentax, but it's the sort of survey one needs to do to give 'terrible' or 'great' some real meaning. [See the bottom of the article].

LensRentals.com - Lensrentals Repair Data: 2012-2013

'Terrible' can also be:

(a) a relative measure (relative to the repair turnaround of other companies: a number like 15 days repair turnaround may appear terrible for Pentax, but if Nikon is 25 days, is Pentax still going to be 'terrible'?), or

(b) a quality measure - ie did the repair actually totally fix the problem, or did the problem recur and so the repair needed to be re-done.

Related to quality, there's the time dimension of 'terrible' too.

If a repair is turned around quickly, so the repair shop did the job quickly (and thus you were able to get the camera back in time to shoot that important wedding), you might judge the repair service 'great', not terrible.

But if, 9 months later, the item needs to be repaired again for the same problem, judged over the course of a year, you might indeed judge the repair service 'terrible', since the item had to be fixed twice. But then if the repaired item worked fine for 10 years afterwards, you might re-think whether the repair service was indeed 'terrible' after all.

tl; dr - 'terrible' service and support needs qualification sometimes.

07-16-2015, 04:17 AM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
As for AF performance for action/sport, let's look how the keeper rate is better with A7-II + 70-200 f/4 than with D4s + latest 70-200 f/2.8 at f/4 setting. Until we have some serious review on this, this is hypothetical.
Everybody makes this same mistake (DPReview in particular). AF performance isn't measured by a keeper rate. It is measured as Max[dM/dt] it can still aquire sharp focus at (M being the 35mm-equivalent magnification). Otherwise, you can have a 100% keeper rate because the camera ceased to focus when the subject became too close ...

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Didn't someone on another thread (3 rumors?) say a Tamron Rep told him Ricoh is establishing a company-owned Pentax Service Center ...
IIRC, Pentax said it would establish a pro-level support network to distribute their 645 dgital cameras. It either happened or it did not which means we shouldn't trust it would happen this time.
07-16-2015, 04:36 AM   #130
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Service center doesn't mean pro network imho.
Or would be fed by.
Much more easy to build.
07-16-2015, 04:46 AM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Everybody makes this same mistake (DPReview in particular). AF performance isn't measured by a keeper rate. It is measured as Max[dM/dt] it can still aquire sharp focus at (M being the 35mm-equivalent magnification). Otherwise, you can have a 100% keeper rate because the camera ceased to focus when the subject became too close ...


IIRC, Pentax said it would establish a pro-level support network to distribute their 645 dgital cameras. It either happened or it did not which means we shouldn't trust it would happen this time.

Keeper rate, not ratio
07-16-2015, 11:54 AM   #132
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Until we have some hard data on repair satisfaction, we're just speculating.

I know there was outrage on the Sony dpr forum when it was announced that Precision was going to do their warranty and support service. Frankly, Precision returned my K3 1 week after i turned it in for reflashing the firmware RE the flapping mirror problem. Excellent service. On the other hand, i've heard of long waits to get replacement circuit boards that aren't normally stocked for Pentax, apparently.

Several months back, i spent a few days reading the Nikon dpr forum, and there were several unhappy customers regarding changes that had been made to their normal support repair service.

Obviously sales on cameras have been sliding for a coupla years now. Any camera company is going to try to cut their costs wherever they can. The advantage of a non-company repair service, is that its a lot more adaptable to market changes than an in-house program - IMHO. I've been in a management position once, and had to make decisions on how to adapt to a reduced budget and which positions to reduce. Its never easy. We may have to live with reduced repair services, but there are employees who have to live with job loss.
07-16-2015, 12:19 PM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Until we have some hard data on repair satisfaction, we're just speculating.

I know there was outrage on the Sony dpr forum when it was announced that Precision was going to do their warranty and support service. Frankly, Precision returned my K3 1 week after i turned it in for reflashing the firmware RE the flapping mirror problem. Excellent service. On the other hand, i've heard of long waits to get replacement circuit boards that aren't normally stocked for Pentax, apparently.

Several months back, i spent a few days reading the Nikon dpr forum, and there were several unhappy customers regarding changes that had been made to their normal support repair service.

Obviously sales on cameras have been sliding for a coupla years now. Any camera company is going to try to cut their costs wherever they can. The advantage of a non-company repair service, is that its a lot more adaptable to market changes than an in-house program - IMHO. I've been in a management position once, and had to make decisions on how to adapt to a reduced budget and which positions to reduce. Its never easy. We may have to live with reduced repair services, but there are employees who have to live with job loss.
Too right, and in any case before something can be repaired you have to get a customer into the shop to buy it in the first place. That's a heck of a battle at the moment. IBIS, 4K, touchscreens, T/S rear screens, focus peaking, high-power mobile-derived cpus, fast and comprehensive CDAF, improved EVFs, panorama modes, face detection, phone/tablet apps, comms and so on - this is where much of the current battle is taking place. I guess outfits that want to stay around need to get in there and offer the user something really desirable which can really take advantage of the best tech out there. Getting it repaired comes later.
07-16-2015, 12:21 PM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
At a general photo discussion site where I'm a regular, one of the Canikon fanboys told me outright that Pentax cameras are OK, but serious photographers won't be interested until Ricoh provides better support, primarily in repair facilities, because a serious guy needs quick response to his problems.
I was bitten by the K-3II "won't power off issue".
I was without a camera for about 2 weeks because I had to return it to B&H. If I were a working pro, that would be unacceptable. Even worse, the replacement camera I was sent was in the "bad" serial number range. I could've sent it to Ricoh's repair facility for inspection, and I would have to pay out for shipping out of my own pocket, and wait 3-4 weeks to get my camera back. Or I could've sent it back to B&H, waited 2 more weeks, and more than likely get another "bad" serial number camera.
All of this points to not having a robust service network catering to working professionals. Sure, you have to pay to be a part of Canikon's network, but they would've offered me a loaner. Only a Ricoh Fanboy would think believe that the Ricoh support network is competitive.

Hopefully, they realize this and get their act together by the time the FF is released, or at least have a plan in place going forward.

---------- Post added 07-16-15 at 12:25 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Serious cameras don't need repair....
That is a Strawman argument.

No one is arguing that Pentax bodies aren't at least as robust as Canikon's...however every mechanical system built by the hand of man has the potential to need to be repaired.

Last edited by cali92rs; 07-16-2015 at 12:30 PM.
07-16-2015, 12:40 PM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
I was bitten by the K-3II "won't power off issue".
I was without a camera for about 2 weeks because I had to return it to B&H. If I were a working pro, that would be unacceptable. Even worse, the replacement camera I was sent was in the "bad" serial number range. I could've sent it to Ricoh's repair facility for inspection, and I would have to pay out for shipping out of my own pocket, and wait 3-4 weeks to get my camera back. Or I could've sent it back to B&H, waited 2 more weeks, and more than likely get another "bad" serial number camera.
All of this points to not having a robust service network catering to working professionals. Sure, you have to pay to be a part of Canikon's network, but they would've offered me a loaner. Only a Ricoh Fanboy would think believe that the Ricoh support network is competitive.

Hopefully, they realize this and get their act together by the time the FF is released, or at least have a plan in place going forward.
I really don't get this nonsence as a pro that make a living out of photography one should be able to have some spare material anyway.

My understanding is that if you have clients and work to do, you should have the backup gear available NOW. Even if some other brand make you wait only 1-2 days, that can already mean a few shooting session missed. Also if I need a new K3, I can just take a car and buy it locally or alternativelly I can get a new one at Amazon and ask to be delivered tomorrow at noon.

I mean if I'am a pro and my car break I might be just in a situation as bad as if my camera break and there no way canikon will solve this for me anyway.
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