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06-17-2008, 07:43 AM   #16
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Fanboys, enter stage left.

06-17-2008, 11:01 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
#8 in this test has best IQ. Where can I get one ?
Yes, if image quality were truly all that mattered in photography, we'd all still be shooting with 8x10's

Fact is a lot of other factors come into play. 8x10s blow everything else out of the water in terms of image quality, but convenience is not exactly their strong suit. Especially as you have to lug a whacking great wood tripod around to set them on.
06-17-2008, 11:19 AM   #18
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Jokes on what matters most aside, the fact is that the dSLR cameras discussed in this list are comparable in many ways. And from that point of view, what matters most (considering they are similar animals) is image quality, IMO. Obviously bigger sensors will provide better image quality, but they are used in a completely different kind of cameras.

My point was, and is, that a serious and relevant photographer as the owner of TOP is stating clearly that the Pentax K20D outperforms the supposed king of the category that is the Nikon D300 when addressing image quality. And that comment alone looks important to me to deserve being discussed, after reading so many other posts from CaNikonists understating the K20D due to aspects as important as the frames per second, for instance. As if all of us were shooting sports on a daily basis.

On a daily basis, image quality is (or rather, should be) THE feature of choice. All the rest (provided we discuss about the same category of cameras, dSLR) is (or should be) secondary, in my opinion, of course.
06-17-2008, 06:02 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mallee Boy Quote
Mallee Boy pulls up a chair, opens a beer, shakes out some peanuts (or popcorn ) and settles back to enjoy what will be a grand show.

Looking expectantly at the 'door' for the next entrant.

LOL.

If you really want a show to enjoy with your beer and nuts, it should be posted on DP Review Pentax SLR forum and then watch the sh!t hit the fan. There will be Nikon and Canon worshippers from the *Pentax SLR forum* defending the D300 etc as if it were their first born.

06-17-2008, 06:08 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
not to hijack the thread, but uhhhh. I'd have had to told that photographer to stuff it. Canon and Nikon users constantly claim that any Pentax is a "consumer" grade camera though, so again he had no right to prevent you from attending and shooting.
I shoot both Pentax and Nikon systems.

PLEASE do not lump us into the "constantly" catagory, PLEASE

Dave
06-17-2008, 06:08 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mallee Boy Quote
But come on Ben.....what would you know..??? I mean you merely make a living out of photographing for leading world magazines and models.

Its not as though you do any serious photography.........like endless mindless technical dis-section

One day Ben they will listen to you.....question is when.

Cheers (& still appreciate your input)
Agreed.

The Pentax bashers find it hard to believe that Pentax can make such a fabulous camera in the K20D. Their belief is that if you are the biggest then you *have* to be the best, so therefore CaNikon have to make the best cameras, just like GMH and Toyota make the best cars...not!
06-17-2008, 07:06 PM   #22
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K20d & D300

I am actually a dual platform guy (not a pro) with a K20D (upgraded from the K10D in February) and a D300 (purchased in April). In my experience, their BOTH tremendous cameras, each with advantages over the other.

I bought into the Nikon system primarily because I wanted long telephoto glass for birds and wildlife. The first lens I bought for it was the Sigma 300-800, and now have the new VR2 16-85, the VR f/2.8 70-200, the VR f/4 200-400 and the new 24mm PC-E (tilt/shift).

My K20D has the 18-250 for a walk around, the 10-17 fisheye and 12-24 for wide angle, the 100mm macro, the f/1.8 31mm ltd. prime and the Sigma 50-500 (Bigma).

It always amazes me how worked up some people get about their systems. It's like if you question the D300, you're attacking them personally. I guess it's common to tie ones identity into what one has or does but do "things" really define who we are? I choose to think not but don't want to digress into a discussion on metaphysics or epistemology. How about everyone agreeing that just because I like vanilla doesn't mean I have to hate chocolate!

I just look at them as tools and go from there. From my experience with both (the main reason I'm replying to this thread) is that I do feel the K20D image quality is every bit as good if not better than that of the D300.

It seems that there isn't a universally "most important aspect" to any tool. Rather, it's what's most important to the person using it. For me, IQ is right at the top, followed by selection of glass.

IQ being more or less equal, I've found I like K20D better for the weather seals, smaller body (fits my hands a bit better), and I really like IS in the body!

The D300 has much faster AF and the 6-8 FPS comes in handy too. While I love my Pentax glass, I feel Nikon has a much bigger selection, especially in the long end. It ain't cheap but until Sigma comes out with the 300-800 in a Pentax mount or revisits the 250-600 digital style, I'll take the long Nikon lenses anyday.

I've really learned a lot from many of you over the last 10 months reading this forum and want to thank everyone for that. I generally don't post too often as I am not that experienced and don't feel I have that much info to offer. More often than not, I'm just asking questions.

Given that I'm shooting with both cameras, I thought I'd offer what little I could.

I really like the Online Photographer (that and the Luminous Landscape are my two favorite photo based sites) and am glad to see both the D300 and the K20D getting their just praise.

I love Pentax and hope it gets more market share as competition is a great thing for all of us consumers! They've certainly got the D-SLRs now, and if their quantity of glass can catch up to their quality AND they have the corporate marketing dollars and energy, the "Big 2" will have to make some room at the top!

My best to everyone,
Phil
06-17-2008, 07:40 PM   #23
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Hmmmm...

From the article, referring to the D300:

"the D300 trumps all of the competitors in its class in terms of overall speed, responsiveness, and flash options and control. It's a true semi-pro camera."

and referring to the K20:

"a fine choice for both enthusiastic hobbyists and dedicated amateur shooters"

How does everyone interpret this?

06-17-2008, 10:22 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Lusk Quote
From the article, referring to the D300:

"the D300 trumps all of the competitors in its class in terms of overall speed, responsiveness, and flash options and control. It's a true semi-pro camera."

and referring to the K20:

"a fine choice for both enthusiastic hobbyists and dedicated amateur shooters"

How does everyone interpret this?

I interpret it exactly how I think it was intended - and it's consistent with why they gave the top spot to the D300.

Even though the image quality of the k20D was rated higher by them, a fact that seems to be turning D300 fanboys green, judging by the quivering, loaded questions taking place in the responses thread in that review right now...

Mike intended to be pretty clear, and he was, and I agree with their assessment and I think they were consistent with their application of criteria.

Now, the fact that the better images can be had with a camera perfect for "enthusiastic hobbyists and dedicated amateur shooters" - in other words, 97% of DSLR buyers - well, that's wonderful news.

Of course, there will be many who consider themselves worthy of 'semi-pro' responsiveness and body performance, and don't want to put themselves in the "enthusiastic hobbyists and dedicated amateur shooters" category, but most of us know they're just kidding themselves about their photographic skills/status ....


.
06-18-2008, 12:31 AM   #25
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^ Completely agreed.

Everybody agrees in that the D300 (and obviously moreso the D3) is addressed to professionals and it outperforms the K20D in a number of features.

But as you rightly stated, the real world is composed by a vast majority of "enthusiastic hobbyists and dedicated amateur shooters" for whom many of the pro features of the D300/D3 are plain useless. And the fact that we can purchase a cheaper camera as the K20D AND at the same time retain the possibility of making better pictures than the D300, that is quite an accomplishment from Pentax, in my book.
06-18-2008, 02:45 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by keithg Quote
Great to see and well deserved. In the end though, the whole argument comes back to the user. I know of people that buy the flash camera and expect miracles. They wouldnt have a clue what all the stuff on the camera is. I just got banned from taking my K10D to a wedding by the official photographer, a 30D user. Ill bring my own beer and peanuts Grant if i can pull up a chair with you and watch.
Keith
I have no clue how K20D compared with Nikon D300. But I personally had a direct comparison of a lowly DL + FA28mm + a cheapo flash contesting a full blown Nikon prof setup of D200 + a huge Nikon 2.8zoom + flash bracket.

Interesting real life contest of 2 systems.

FA28mm compared with a prof Nikon zoom - Pentax Lenses - Digital SLR Cameras - Steves-digicams.com Forums



Daniel

Time to brag: it was more an operator's error. What counts is the photographer not the gear .
06-18-2008, 03:41 AM   #27
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Nice Post

QuoteOriginally posted by philipweber Quote
I am actually a dual platform guy (not a pro) with a K20D (upgraded from the K10D in February) and a D300 (purchased in April). In my experience, their BOTH tremendous cameras, each with advantages over the other.

I just look at them as tools and go from there. From my experience with both (the main reason I'm replying to this thread) is that I do feel the K20D image quality is every bit as good if not better than that of the D300.

I really like the Online Photographer (that and the Luminous Landscape are my two favorite photo based sites) and am glad to see both the D300 and the K20D getting their just praise.

My best to everyone,
Phil
Phil,

You hit all the good points. At present my dual system is the K10D and Sony A700. I'll get the K20D when the price drops a little more.

Having the right tool for the job makes all the difference in how much you enjoy the experience. Every shooter has different needs so there is no "Best", just different needs. Defending those needs is something a lot of people waste time on. Hearing why someone made their choices is educational, but it gets boring when read a fanboy rant.

Sounds to me like you have thought out your choices intelligently, congrats.

Ken
06-18-2008, 05:53 AM   #28
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OT: Ben made it there too

The Online Photographer
06-18-2008, 07:16 AM   #29
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Back on topic:

In the comments to this list, Carl Weese (who has a deep experience with the K10D and is now testing the K20D, as some of you might know) posted this:

"In reply to several questions about Pentax K10/K20 "image quality"--it's "subtly improved in a number of ways."

I can't think of any way in which the new sensor is worse, but it's not radically, shockingly, different either. There's more resolution, a little more ability to retain highlights and an unmistakable increase in tonal "smoothness" throughout the tone scale."
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