Hot: The Online Photographer puts K20D in top 10, better image quality than D300"

cateto · 06-17-2008, 01:05 AM

This is probably one of the articles that will help Pentax big time: The Online Photographer, a website that should need no introduction to anybody seriously interested in photography, just published their Summer '08 top 10 new camera recommendations. In that list, the Pentax K20D appears in the 2nd position, together with the Olympus E-3 (which is, may I say, excellent company), the Nikon D300 being first of the list.

This is their comment about the K20D:

"The K20D is an improved version of the K10D. Carl Weese and I are both using this camera at the moment; Carl a "boughten" one, me a loaner from Pentax. Carl is so far finding that it fixes most of what he found to be the K10D's shortcomings. Solid performance, a viewfinder to rival the D80/D200's, in-the-body Shake Reduction (i.e., image stabilization), not too terribly big or small, weatherproof, and favorably priced—and it's got peerless lens compatibility, which is just plain fun. You can get modern AF zooms, a decent selection of independent-maker optics, tiny pancake AF primes, or you can mount manual-focus lenses going all the way back (with the proper adapter) to M42 screwmount, for heaven's sake. And the functionality means that, unlike the case so often is, these now-ancient lenses are actually easy to use. For real pictures. Overall, a package you can't beat with a stick, and a fine choice for both enthusiastic hobbyists and dedicated amateur shooters.

...

Regarding our "tie" between the K20D and the E-3: What both of these cameras share is especially high image quality and fine lens lineups. However, the two companies' approach to lens availability is radically different. Both have advantages. Olympus has been building its Zuiko Digital lineup from scratch since the advent of the E System, giving it a real advantage in terms of overall quality—what one might call a coherence of quality. As we've written elsewhere, Olympus has become to the digital age what Leica was to the preceeding generation and Zeiss to the generation before that—the world's leading lensmaker. However good its principal offerings, however, the line remains seriously limited, meaning that you should check for the current availability of the lenses you need before buying into the system.

Pentax enjoys the opposite approach. Its DSLRs will work with varying degrees of compatibility with lenses going all the way back to the screwmount age, meaning, so long ago that most active photographers don't even know what we mean (Pentax or M42 screwmount was a common-standard screw-in type of lens for SLRs that was outmoded by the end of the 1960s). Plus, there is a wide variety of independent aftermarket lenses that can be fitted to a Pentax, notably including several options from Voigtländer and Zeiss that are also available for Nikons. No company has Pentax's range of purposed-for-digital single-focal-length lenses, however. Both Carl and I are using Pentax's stunning new 35mm DA Macro, which we plan to do an extensive joint post about sometime in the coming two months or so. Suffice to say that we both agree it is, in Carl's words, "really something special."

By contrast, Nikon's and Canon's large but jumbled lens lineups are a hodgepodge of good and not-so-good, old made-for-film and new digital-specific, IS-enabled and not, pro and "consumer," full-frame and reduced-frame, that can ultimately be confusing and even frustrating."

Interestingly, when they comment the Nikon D300, they say "Although image quality is not quite as good as the K20D's, and the basic body style is not quite as pleasingly put together or as much of a pleasure to use at the Olympus E-3, the D300 trumps all of the competitors in its class in terms of overall speed, responsiveness, and flash options and control. It's a true semi-pro camera." I think this is the first serious website stating clearly that K20D outperforms the D300 in strictly image quality terms, which is what should matter most (or not??)

Finally, all they say about the Canon 40D (and that is written in the paragraph dedicated to the D300) is this: "Also a well-sorted, nicely evolved, cheaper competitor with excellent performance: the Canon 40D, a recent update of the D30 [sic]. Although it scores over the D300 in only one way—price—the D40 is a solid step up from entry-level DSLRs and a fine user overall."

Overall, very good news for Pentax and Olympus, excellent news for Nikon (which manages to put in the list three dSLR, D300, D3 and D60 at positions 1, 4 and 6, respectively) and not so good news for Canon, whose representatives in the list are two dSLR (the 450 and 5D at positions 6 and 7, respectively) , and a compact camera, which speaks volumes on how things are going in Canon...

. And worst news of all, no dSLR whatsoever from Sony in this list... which finds only this brief mention about their A700 which questions its image quality: "Also well worth considering in this class: the fine, streamlined, ergonomic and easy-to-use Sony A700. Questions about its ultimate image quality, at least with the initial firmware, are what have kept it off our list."

Last edited by cateto; 06-17-2008 at 03:48 AM.

**Mallee Boy** · 06-17-2008, 01:36 AM

Mallee Boy pulls up a chair, opens a beer, shakes out some peanuts (or popcorn

) and settles back to enjoy what will be a grand show.

Looking expectantly at the 'door' for the next entrant.

keithg · 06-17-2008, 02:19 AM

Great to see and well deserved. In the end though, the whole argument comes back to the user. I know of people that buy the flash camera and expect miracles. They wouldnt have a clue what all the stuff on the camera is. I just got banned from taking my K10D to a wedding by the official photographer, a 30D user. Ill bring my own beer and peanuts Grant if i can pull up a chair with you and watch.
Keith

**Mallee Boy** · 06-17-2008, 02:41 AM

Hi Keith,
These canon lovers can be a bit precious, so mate, just pull up a chair and settle in.....this could be fun to watch......

.......peanut ??

PS: good post btw cateto.

Last edited by Mallee Boy; 06-17-2008 at 02:44 AM. Reason: see PS

keithg · 06-17-2008, 02:47 AM

Thankyou Grant. Have you any of that spag bol left? That would be nice. lol

benjikan · 06-17-2008, 03:01 AM

I have always said that the K20D has better 100 iso performance than the D300.

Ben

**Mallee Boy** · 06-17-2008, 03:59 AM

But come on Ben.....what would you know..??? I mean you merely make a living out of photographing for leading world magazines and models.

Its not as though you do any serious photography.....

....like endless mindless technical dis-section

One day Ben they will listen to you.....question is when.

Cheers (& still appreciate your input)

benjikan · 06-17-2008, 04:46 AM

Originally posted by Mallee Boy

But come on Ben.....what would you know..??? I mean you merely make a living out of photographing for leading world magazines and models.

Its not as though you do any serious photography.....

....like endless mindless technical dis-section

One day Ben they will listen to you.....question is when.

Cheers (& still appreciate your input)

You are so right. What a reveleation...What a Life changing comment and observation....I QUIT...I am now "gonna just take PITCHERS"...RH look out here I come.

Ben

falconeye · 06-17-2008, 04:55 AM

#8 in this test has best IQ. Where can I get one ?

MRRiley · 06-17-2008, 05:18 AM

Originally posted by keithg

Great to see and well deserved. In the end though, the whole argument comes back to the user. I know of people that buy the flash camera and expect miracles. They wouldnt have a clue what all the stuff on the camera is. I just got banned from taking my K10D to a wedding by the official photographer, a 30D user. Ill bring my own beer and peanuts Grant if i can pull up a chair with you and watch.
Keith

not to hijack the thread, but uhhhh. I'd have had to told that photographer to stuff it. Unless the wedding was on his property he has NO right whatsoever to prevent you from bringing your K10D. However, perhaps he had a condition in his contract with the bride and groom that no other "professional" cameras be allowed at the wedding. Canon and Nikon users constantly claim that any Pentax is a "consumer" grade camera though, so again he had no right to prevent you from attending and shooting.

No, the ultimate call is the bride and groom's. Even if he convinced them to tell you you couldn't bring it I'd have had to ask them if they wanted me there with my camera or wanted me to stay home with it. Their choice... not the photographer's... And i guarantee that the photographer would not back out of the shoot over your K10D. Weddings are highly profitable and most guys know better than to put up a fuss that will make them lose the gig.

The only reason a wedding photographer would try to pull this is if he was afraid your photos would be better than his since you have a comparable or better camera than he has. Doubt he stopped Aunt Bertha from taking snapshots with her P&S did he?

flyer · 06-17-2008, 05:44 AM

Originally posted by MRRiley

not to hijack the thread, but uhhhh. I'd have had to told that photographer to stuff it. Unless the wedding was on his property he has NO right whatsoever to prevent you from bringing your K10D. However, perhaps he had a condition in his contract with the bride and groom that no other "professional" cameras be allowed at the wedding. Canon and Nikon users constantly claim that any Pentax is a "consumer" grade camera though, so again he had no right to prevent you from attending and shooting.

No, the ultimate call is the bride and groom's. Even if he convinced them to tell you you couldn't bring it I'd have had to ask them if they wanted me there with my camera or wanted me to stay home with it. Their choice... not the photographer's... And i guarantee that the photographer would not back out of the shoot over your K10D. Weddings are highly profitable and most guys know better than to put up a fuss that will make them lose the gig.

The only reason a wedding photographer would try to pull this is if he was afraid your photos would be better than his since you have a comparable or better camera than he has. Doubt he stopped Aunt Bertha from taking snapshots with her P&S did he?

I agree 100% with you. a wedding is kind of a public event, so you can take pictures. If point and shoot are accepted, you have the same rights, it doesn't matter what camera you are using.

benjikan · 06-17-2008, 06:00 AM

Originally posted by keithg

Great to see and well deserved. In the end though, the whole argument comes back to the user. I know of people that buy the flash camera and expect miracles. They wouldnt have a clue what all the stuff on the camera is. I just got banned from taking my K10D to a wedding by the official photographer, a 30D user. Ill bring my own beer and peanuts Grant if i can pull up a chair with you and watch.
Keith

Tell him to GO and "F--K" Himself...What an "A--HOLE"

Ben

cateto · 06-17-2008, 06:32 AM

Hey guys, this is about a list of recommended cameras, not about being banned from a wedding.

Jonson PL · 06-17-2008, 06:38 AM

Thanks for the info cateto, good news indeed

jeffkrol · 06-17-2008, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by cateto

This is probably one of the articles that will help Pentax big time: The Online Photographer, a website that should need no introduction to anybody seriously interested in photography.................... and easy-to-use Sony A700. Questions about its ultimate image quality, at least with the initial firmware, are what have kept it off our list.[/COLOR]"

Wheres the 645D? Doesn't have to be just a back....
(Sorry couldn't resist)
the very best image quality in digital is attainable only with dedicated medium format back

06-17-2008, 01:05 AM	#1
cateto Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spain Posts: 189	Hot: The Online Photographer puts K20D in top 10, better image quality than D300" This is probably one of the articles that will help Pentax big time: The Online Photographer, a website that should need no introduction to anybody seriously interested in photography, just published their Summer '08 top 10 new camera recommendations. In that list, the Pentax K20D appears in the 2nd position, together with the Olympus E-3 (which is, may I say, excellent company), the Nikon D300 being first of the list. This is their comment about the K20D: "The K20D is an improved version of the K10D. Carl Weese and I are both using this camera at the moment; Carl a "boughten" one, me a loaner from Pentax. Carl is so far finding that it fixes most of what he found to be the K10D's shortcomings. Solid performance, a viewfinder to rival the D80/D200's, in-the-body Shake Reduction (i.e., image stabilization), not too terribly big or small, weatherproof, and favorably priced—and it's got peerless lens compatibility, which is just plain fun. You can get modern AF zooms, a decent selection of independent-maker optics, tiny pancake AF primes, or you can mount manual-focus lenses going all the way back (with the proper adapter) to M42 screwmount, for heaven's sake. And the functionality means that, unlike the case so often is, these now-ancient lenses are actually easy to use. For real pictures. Overall, a package you can't beat with a stick, and a fine choice for both enthusiastic hobbyists and dedicated amateur shooters. ... Regarding our "tie" between the K20D and the E-3: What both of these cameras share is especially high image quality and fine lens lineups. However, the two companies' approach to lens availability is radically different. Both have advantages. Olympus has been building its Zuiko Digital lineup from scratch since the advent of the E System, giving it a real advantage in terms of overall quality—what one might call a coherence of quality. As we've written elsewhere, Olympus has become to the digital age what Leica was to the preceeding generation and Zeiss to the generation before that—the world's leading lensmaker. However good its principal offerings, however, the line remains seriously limited, meaning that you should check for the current availability of the lenses you need before buying into the system. Pentax enjoys the opposite approach. Its DSLRs will work with varying degrees of compatibility with lenses going all the way back to the screwmount age, meaning, so long ago that most active photographers don't even know what we mean (Pentax or M42 screwmount was a common-standard screw-in type of lens for SLRs that was outmoded by the end of the 1960s). Plus, there is a wide variety of independent aftermarket lenses that can be fitted to a Pentax, notably including several options from Voigtländer and Zeiss that are also available for Nikons. No company has Pentax's range of purposed-for-digital single-focal-length lenses, however. Both Carl and I are using Pentax's stunning new 35mm DA Macro, which we plan to do an extensive joint post about sometime in the coming two months or so. Suffice to say that we both agree it is, in Carl's words, "really something special." By contrast, Nikon's and Canon's large but jumbled lens lineups are a hodgepodge of good and not-so-good, old made-for-film and new digital-specific, IS-enabled and not, pro and "consumer," full-frame and reduced-frame, that can ultimately be confusing and even frustrating." Interestingly, when they comment the Nikon D300, they say "Although image quality is not quite as good as the K20D's, and the basic body style is not quite as pleasingly put together or as much of a pleasure to use at the Olympus E-3, the D300 trumps all of the competitors in its class in terms of overall speed, responsiveness, and flash options and control. It's a true semi-pro camera." I think this is the first serious website stating clearly that K20D outperforms the D300 in strictly image quality terms, which is what should matter most (or not??) Finally, all they say about the Canon 40D (and that is written in the paragraph dedicated to the D300) is this: "Also a well-sorted, nicely evolved, cheaper competitor with excellent performance: the Canon 40D, a recent update of the D30 [sic]. Although it scores over the D300 in only one way—price—the D40 is a solid step up from entry-level DSLRs and a fine user overall." Overall, very good news for Pentax and Olympus, excellent news for Nikon (which manages to put in the list three dSLR, D300, D3 and D60 at positions 1, 4 and 6, respectively) and not so good news for Canon, whose representatives in the list are two dSLR (the 450 and 5D at positions 6 and 7, respectively) , and a compact camera, which speaks volumes on how things are going in Canon.... And worst news of all, no dSLR whatsoever from Sony in this list... which finds only this brief mention about their A700 which questions its image quality: "Also well worth considering in this class: the fine, streamlined, ergonomic and easy-to-use Sony A700. Questions about its ultimate image quality, at least with the initial firmware, are what have kept it off our list." Last edited by cateto; 06-17-2008 at 03:48 AM.

06-17-2008, 03:59 AM	#7
Mallee Boy Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,904	But come on Ben.....what would you know..??? I mean you merely make a living out of photographing for leading world magazines and models. Its not as though you do any serious photography.........like endless mindless technical dis-section One day Ben they will listen to you.....question is when. Cheers (& still appreciate your input)

06-17-2008, 05:18 AM	#10
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Originally posted by keithg Great to see and well deserved. In the end though, the whole argument comes back to the user. I know of people that buy the flash camera and expect miracles. They wouldnt have a clue what all the stuff on the camera is. I just got banned from taking my K10D to a wedding by the official photographer, a 30D user. Ill bring my own beer and peanuts Grant if i can pull up a chair with you and watch. Keith not to hijack the thread, but uhhhh. I'd have had to told that photographer to stuff it. Unless the wedding was on his property he has NO right whatsoever to prevent you from bringing your K10D. However, perhaps he had a condition in his contract with the bride and groom that no other "professional" cameras be allowed at the wedding. Canon and Nikon users constantly claim that any Pentax is a "consumer" grade camera though, so again he had no right to prevent you from attending and shooting. No, the ultimate call is the bride and groom's. Even if he convinced them to tell you you couldn't bring it I'd have had to ask them if they wanted me there with my camera or wanted me to stay home with it. Their choice... not the photographer's... And i guarantee that the photographer would not back out of the shoot over your K10D. Weddings are highly profitable and most guys know better than to put up a fuss that will make them lose the gig. The only reason a wedding photographer would try to pull this is if he was afraid your photos would be better than his since you have a comparable or better camera than he has. Doubt he stopped Aunt Bertha from taking snapshots with her P&S did he? Last edited by MRRiley; 06-17-2008 at 05:28 AM.

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06-17-2008, 01:36 AM	#2
Mallee Boy Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,904	Mallee Boy pulls up a chair, opens a beer, shakes out some peanuts (or popcorn ) and settles back to enjoy what will be a grand show. Looking expectantly at the 'door' for the next entrant.

06-17-2008, 02:19 AM	#3
keithg Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hillcrest Brisbane Photos: Gallery Posts: 100	Great to see and well deserved. In the end though, the whole argument comes back to the user. I know of people that buy the flash camera and expect miracles. They wouldnt have a clue what all the stuff on the camera is. I just got banned from taking my K10D to a wedding by the official photographer, a 30D user. Ill bring my own beer and peanuts Grant if i can pull up a chair with you and watch. Keith

06-17-2008, 02:41 AM	#4
Mallee Boy Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,904	Hi Keith, These canon lovers can be a bit precious, so mate, just pull up a chair and settle in.....this could be fun to watch...... .......peanut ?? PS: good post btw cateto. Last edited by Mallee Boy; 06-17-2008 at 02:44 AM. Reason: see PS

06-17-2008, 02:47 AM	#5
keithg Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hillcrest Brisbane Photos: Gallery Posts: 100	Thankyou Grant. Have you any of that spag bol left? That would be nice. lol

06-17-2008, 03:01 AM	#6
benjikan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,308	I have always said that the K20D has better 100 iso performance than the D300. Ben

06-17-2008, 04:46 AM	#8
benjikan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,308	Originally posted by Mallee Boy But come on Ben.....what would you know..??? I mean you merely make a living out of photographing for leading world magazines and models. Its not as though you do any serious photography.........like endless mindless technical dis-section One day Ben they will listen to you.....question is when. Cheers (& still appreciate your input) You are so right. What a reveleation...What a Life changing comment and observation....I QUIT...I am now "gonna just take PITCHERS"...RH look out here I come. Ben

06-17-2008, 04:55 AM	#9
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	#8 in this test has best IQ. Where can I get one ?

06-17-2008, 05:44 AM	#11
flyer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada Posts: 2,013	Originally posted by MRRiley not to hijack the thread, but uhhhh. I'd have had to told that photographer to stuff it. Unless the wedding was on his property he has NO right whatsoever to prevent you from bringing your K10D. However, perhaps he had a condition in his contract with the bride and groom that no other "professional" cameras be allowed at the wedding. Canon and Nikon users constantly claim that any Pentax is a "consumer" grade camera though, so again he had no right to prevent you from attending and shooting. No, the ultimate call is the bride and groom's. Even if he convinced them to tell you you couldn't bring it I'd have had to ask them if they wanted me there with my camera or wanted me to stay home with it. Their choice... not the photographer's... And i guarantee that the photographer would not back out of the shoot over your K10D. Weddings are highly profitable and most guys know better than to put up a fuss that will make them lose the gig. The only reason a wedding photographer would try to pull this is if he was afraid your photos would be better than his since you have a comparable or better camera than he has. Doubt he stopped Aunt Bertha from taking snapshots with her P&S did he? I agree 100% with you. a wedding is kind of a public event, so you can take pictures. If point and shoot are accepted, you have the same rights, it doesn't matter what camera you are using.

06-17-2008, 06:00 AM	#12
benjikan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,308	Originally posted by keithg Great to see and well deserved. In the end though, the whole argument comes back to the user. I know of people that buy the flash camera and expect miracles. They wouldnt have a clue what all the stuff on the camera is. I just got banned from taking my K10D to a wedding by the official photographer, a 30D user. Ill bring my own beer and peanuts Grant if i can pull up a chair with you and watch. Keith Tell him to GO and "F--K" Himself...What an "A--HOLE" Ben

06-17-2008, 06:32 AM	#13
cateto Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spain Posts: 189 Original Poster	Hey guys, this is about a list of recommended cameras, not about being banned from a wedding.

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06-17-2008, 06:38 AM	#14
Jonson PL Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Copenhagen Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,842	Thanks for the info cateto, good news indeed

06-17-2008, 07:03 AM	#15
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by cateto This is probably one of the articles that will help Pentax big time: The Online Photographer, a website that should need no introduction to anybody seriously interested in photography.................... and easy-to-use Sony A700. Questions about its ultimate image quality, at least with the initial firmware, are what have kept it off our list.[/COLOR]" Wheres the 645D? Doesn't have to be just a back.... (Sorry couldn't resist) the very best image quality in digital is attainable only with dedicated medium format back