The latest FF speculation

mecrox · 08-19-2015, 06:15 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by rawr

No. He can't be a liar if he doesn't know the truth

And at the moment the truth about the FF seems to be very closely held in Japan at Ricoh HQ.

I'm not surprised. They're in a heck of a difficult situation, launching a new FF line just as the market looks as if it may turn more and more to mirrorless (I've been reading speculation about Canon finally making a big move instead of sitting by and allowing Sony to drain off their customers and revenue). Who knows what is going to happen. From Ricoh's POV, they could issue six bodies all at once but if they bet wrong on the form factor and technology mix it won't make the least bit of difference. These are exciting times if you are a customer but they must be darn scary if you are a camera industry executive.

bxf · 08-19-2015, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

...That's just idle speculation...

As opposed to all the other information floating around here

pathdoc · 08-19-2015, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by mecrox

They're in a heck of a difficult situation, launching a new FF line just as the market looks as if it may turn more and more to mirrorless

They have an "out" here, because of the whole retro thing. Every man and his dog wants something that looks like Grandad's old film camera. I keep thinking of that Spotmatic D concept on one of the other subforums, and thinking that we will probably never get that (particularly not in M42) or a "K1000-D" as a digital SLR; but even if you can't fit the guts of a DSLR inside a film body, perhaps you can fit the guts of a Q and build the K-mount adapter (perhaps even including lensturbo-type optics) into the structure.

ogl · 08-19-2015, 06:32 AM

The specs should be leaked in September...

pathdoc · 08-19-2015, 06:57 AM

They need to tell us just enough to get us excited but not enough to spoil things.

**WillWeaverRVA** · 08-19-2015, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

Just because Ricoh doesn't bring out a monthly newsletter about it's progress doesn't mean they may have abandoned it. That's just idle speculation.

I can confirm that this is true according to Ricoh's super-secret full frame weekly newsletter that only certain insiders get.

**photoramone** · 08-19-2015, 07:17 AM

Originally posted by geomez

Sony did it with their A7 series. Ricoh might as well.

wow!! and I thought that I was "loaded-for-Bear" your list of lenses, by & for "PENTAX" is just fabulous!!! RJM

D1N0 · 08-19-2015, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by bxf

As opposed to all the other information floating around here

Which doesn't have a 3d print or an official announcement at cp+

**MJSfoto1956** · 08-19-2015, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

And unlike people wrongly wrote, having two body with shared R&D and different pricing/margin is better suited for low volumes, since the price of camera components is about the same from 10k per year to 100k per year

+1

And there is ample precedent: Canon has two FF sharing the similar innards, Nikon originally had two D800's, Sony has two FFs. It think *IF* Pentax is going to do the "two body" routine, they will have to share the same form factor.

Michael

quant2325 · 08-19-2015, 11:10 AM

Come on , guys. This segment is chump change for Ricoh. It can afford to go after market share, if that is what it wants to do. It did so with the 645Z, right? And that was a success. We have no idea about the FF.

Cameras are relatively cheap to produce once the sunk costs are taken out of the equation. You need a sensor and processor, and everything else is basically rubber stamped, updated with each new model. I'll bet the break even in terms of units sold is a lot less than most of us think. Pentax did just fine with its 2% market share. Ricoh obviously wants to do a lot better. Right now Ricoh is more innovative than Canon or Nikon.

K David · 08-19-2015, 11:32 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by rawr

For all we know, Ricoh could have abandoned the FF project entirely 6 months ago.

That's akin to saying that since we haven't seen a new camera announcement since the K-3 II that, for all we know, Ricoh could have abandoned making cameras a month ago.

**Rondec** · 08-19-2015, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by mecrox

I'm not surprised. They're in a heck of a difficult situation, launching a new FF line just as the market looks as if it may turn more and more to mirrorless (I've been reading speculation about Canon finally making a big move instead of sitting by and allowing Sony to drain off their customers and revenue). Who knows what is going to happen. From Ricoh's POV, they could issue six bodies all at once but if they bet wrong on the form factor and technology mix it won't make the least bit of difference. These are exciting times if you are a customer but they must be darn scary if you are a camera industry executive.

I don't think it matters. It isn't like Sony has made a ton of money in the mirrorless market. They have had as many false starts as they have had successes. Certainly from an existing user standpoint, Pentaxians are going to be more amenable to purchasing a traditional SLR with an OVF. Granted, there are only 50 us who want it enough to pay for it, but still, there are plenty of people who like the SLR form factor.

I think the pro market is still pretty solidly SLR-centric. I don't buy that wedding shooters are going to buy 70-200 f2.8s and mount them on a mirrorless camera. As far as I know, there isn't even one available in the NEX mount, only an alpha mount one that requires a clunky adapter to use.

biz-engineer · 08-19-2015, 12:05 PM

A curiosity was that Ricoh delayed the DFA 70-200. Was it related to modifications that they would have had to do for the lens AF to work with a second camera body such as the full frame version of the mirror-less K-01 ?

normhead · 08-19-2015, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

A curiosity was that Ricoh delayed the DFA 70-200. Was it related to modifications that they would have had to do for the lens AF to work with a second camera body such as the full frame version of the mirror-less K-01 ?

My impression was it just wasn't fast enough focusing to keep up with the competition. A serious short coming for a lens that is essential for the FF and probably slated to be on the market for at least 10 years.

But if they produce an FF K-01, it would probably my best shot at owning one. The K-3 will be the way to go for wildlife, macro etc. the FF will be a landscape camera, and I've never had a problem with using the K-01 for landscape. In fact there are times when I prefer it. IF they could introduce one for roughly 2k or less that would be awesome.

Winder · 08-19-2015, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

I think the pro market is still pretty solidly SLR-centric. I don't buy that wedding shooters are going to buy 70-200 f2.8s and mount them on a mirrorless camera. As far as I know, there isn't even one available in the NEX mount, only an alpha mount one that requires a clunky adapter to use.

Sony is developing a 24-70 and 70-200 F/2.8 in their G series for FE. I doubt they will be released until the larger A9 body is announced. They just don't balance well with the A7 form factor.
(SR5) Sony officially registered a new 24-70mm FE GM lens (f/2.8?) | sonyalpharumors

Originally posted by biz-engineer

A curiosity was that Ricoh delayed the DFA 70-200.

Probably a smart thing to do. The They don't want this lens to be reviewed with the slower AF of the K-3. Once it is reviewed I doubt people will go back and re-test it on the FF body. When this lens gets reviewed it needs to be with the new AF system in the FF.

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08-19-2015, 06:15 AM - 1 Like	#136
mecrox Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by rawr No. He can't be a liar if he doesn't know the truth And at the moment the truth about the FF seems to be very closely held in Japan at Ricoh HQ. I'm not surprised. They're in a heck of a difficult situation, launching a new FF line just as the market looks as if it may turn more and more to mirrorless (I've been reading speculation about Canon finally making a big move instead of sitting by and allowing Sony to drain off their customers and revenue). Who knows what is going to happen. From Ricoh's POV, they could issue six bodies all at once but if they bet wrong on the form factor and technology mix it won't make the least bit of difference. These are exciting times if you are a customer but they must be darn scary if you are a camera industry executive.

08-19-2015, 06:24 AM	#137
bxf Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Lisbon area Posts: 1,660	Originally posted by D1N0 ...That's just idle speculation... As opposed to all the other information floating around here

08-19-2015, 06:29 AM	#138
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Originally posted by mecrox They're in a heck of a difficult situation, launching a new FF line just as the market looks as if it may turn more and more to mirrorless They have an "out" here, because of the whole retro thing. Every man and his dog wants something that looks like Grandad's old film camera. I keep thinking of that Spotmatic D concept on one of the other subforums, and thinking that we will probably never get that (particularly not in M42) or a "K1000-D" as a digital SLR; but even if you can't fit the guts of a DSLR inside a film body, perhaps you can fit the guts of a Q and build the K-mount adapter (perhaps even including lensturbo-type optics) into the structure.

08-19-2015, 06:32 AM	#139
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	The specs should be leaked in September...

08-19-2015, 06:57 AM	#140
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	They need to tell us just enough to get us excited but not enough to spoil things.

08-19-2015, 06:59 AM	#141
WillWeaverRVA Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Richmond, VA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,071	Originally posted by D1N0 Just because Ricoh doesn't bring out a monthly newsletter about it's progress doesn't mean they may have abandoned it. That's just idle speculation. I can confirm that this is true according to Ricoh's super-secret full frame weekly newsletter that only certain insiders get.

08-19-2015, 07:17 AM	#142
photoramone Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Flushing, Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 143	Originally posted by geomez Sony did it with their A7 series. Ricoh might as well. wow!! and I thought that I was "loaded-for-Bear" your list of lenses, by & for "PENTAX" is just fabulous!!! RJM

08-19-2015, 07:28 AM	#143
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Originally posted by bxf As opposed to all the other information floating around here Which doesn't have a 3d print or an official announcement at cp+

08-19-2015, 09:06 AM	#144
MJSfoto1956 Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Boston Posts: 1,305	Originally posted by biz-engineer And unlike people wrongly wrote, having two body with shared R&D and different pricing/margin is better suited for low volumes, since the price of camera components is about the same from 10k per year to 100k per year +1 And there is ample precedent: Canon has two FF sharing the similar innards, Nikon originally had two D800's, Sony has two FFs. It think IF Pentax is going to do the "two body" routine, they will have to share the same form factor. Michael

08-19-2015, 11:10 AM	#145
quant2325 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 205	Come on , guys. This segment is chump change for Ricoh. It can afford to go after market share, if that is what it wants to do. It did so with the 645Z, right? And that was a success. We have no idea about the FF. Cameras are relatively cheap to produce once the sunk costs are taken out of the equation. You need a sensor and processor, and everything else is basically rubber stamped, updated with each new model. I'll bet the break even in terms of units sold is a lot less than most of us think. Pentax did just fine with its 2% market share. Ricoh obviously wants to do a lot better. Right now Ricoh is more innovative than Canon or Nikon.

08-19-2015, 11:32 AM - 1 Like	#146
K David Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Colorado Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,437	Originally posted by rawr For all we know, Ricoh could have abandoned the FF project entirely 6 months ago. That's akin to saying that since we haven't seen a new camera announcement since the K-3 II that, for all we know, Ricoh could have abandoned making cameras a month ago.

08-19-2015, 11:55 AM	#147
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by mecrox I'm not surprised. They're in a heck of a difficult situation, launching a new FF line just as the market looks as if it may turn more and more to mirrorless (I've been reading speculation about Canon finally making a big move instead of sitting by and allowing Sony to drain off their customers and revenue). Who knows what is going to happen. From Ricoh's POV, they could issue six bodies all at once but if they bet wrong on the form factor and technology mix it won't make the least bit of difference. These are exciting times if you are a customer but they must be darn scary if you are a camera industry executive. I don't think it matters. It isn't like Sony has made a ton of money in the mirrorless market. They have had as many false starts as they have had successes. Certainly from an existing user standpoint, Pentaxians are going to be more amenable to purchasing a traditional SLR with an OVF. Granted, there are only 50 us who want it enough to pay for it, but still, there are plenty of people who like the SLR form factor. I think the pro market is still pretty solidly SLR-centric. I don't buy that wedding shooters are going to buy 70-200 f2.8s and mount them on a mirrorless camera. As far as I know, there isn't even one available in the NEX mount, only an alpha mount one that requires a clunky adapter to use.

08-19-2015, 12:05 PM	#148
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,242	A curiosity was that Ricoh delayed the DFA 70-200. Was it related to modifications that they would have had to do for the lens AF to work with a second camera body such as the full frame version of the mirror-less K-01 ?

08-19-2015, 12:50 PM	#149
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by biz-engineer A curiosity was that Ricoh delayed the DFA 70-200. Was it related to modifications that they would have had to do for the lens AF to work with a second camera body such as the full frame version of the mirror-less K-01 ? My impression was it just wasn't fast enough focusing to keep up with the competition. A serious short coming for a lens that is essential for the FF and probably slated to be on the market for at least 10 years. But if they produce an FF K-01, it would probably my best shot at owning one. The K-3 will be the way to go for wildlife, macro etc. the FF will be a landscape camera, and I've never had a problem with using the K-01 for landscape. In fact there are times when I prefer it. IF they could introduce one for roughly 2k or less that would be awesome.

08-19-2015, 12:54 PM	#150
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Rondec I think the pro market is still pretty solidly SLR-centric. I don't buy that wedding shooters are going to buy 70-200 f2.8s and mount them on a mirrorless camera. As far as I know, there isn't even one available in the NEX mount, only an alpha mount one that requires a clunky adapter to use. Sony is developing a 24-70 and 70-200 F/2.8 in their G series for FE. I doubt they will be released until the larger A9 body is announced. They just don't balance well with the A7 form factor. (SR5) Sony officially registered a new 24-70mm FE GM lens (f/2.8?) \| sonyalpharumors Originally posted by biz-engineer A curiosity was that Ricoh delayed the DFA 70-200. Probably a smart thing to do. The They don't want this lens to be reviewed with the slower AF of the K-3. Once it is reviewed I doubt people will go back and re-test it on the FF body. When this lens gets reviewed it needs to be with the new AF system in the FF.