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08-19-2015, 11:55 AM   #151
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
I'm not surprised. They're in a heck of a difficult situation, launching a new FF line just as the market looks as if it may turn more and more to mirrorless (I've been reading speculation about Canon finally making a big move instead of sitting by and allowing Sony to drain off their customers and revenue). Who knows what is going to happen. From Ricoh's POV, they could issue six bodies all at once but if they bet wrong on the form factor and technology mix it won't make the least bit of difference. These are exciting times if you are a customer but they must be darn scary if you are a camera industry executive.
I don't think it matters. It isn't like Sony has made a ton of money in the mirrorless market. They have had as many false starts as they have had successes. Certainly from an existing user standpoint, Pentaxians are going to be more amenable to purchasing a traditional SLR with an OVF. Granted, there are only 50 us who want it enough to pay for it, but still, there are plenty of people who like the SLR form factor.

I think the pro market is still pretty solidly SLR-centric. I don't buy that wedding shooters are going to buy 70-200 f2.8s and mount them on a mirrorless camera. As far as I know, there isn't even one available in the NEX mount, only an alpha mount one that requires a clunky adapter to use.

08-19-2015, 12:01 PM   #152
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Biz was saying nothing of the sort. He was arguing that Ricoh would come out with two identical bodies, with identical electronics, one software crippled and at a substantial discount.

And I'm not even sure that sharing "innards" means you'll see the same form factor. The K-5 and K-01 shared the same basic platform and were wildly different designs. More recently, the K-50 and K-30 were essentially the same camera, with different form factors. If anything, Ricoh lately has been trying to differentiate its bodies more than in the past (cf K-5 and K-7, which were pretty much identical in the hand, whereas even the K-3 has some differences).

QuoteOriginally posted by MJSfoto1956 Quote
+1

And there is ample precedent: Canon has two FF sharing the similar innards, Nikon originally had two D800's, Sony has two FFs. It think *IF* Pentax is going to do the "two body" routine, they will have to share the same form factor.

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08-19-2015, 12:05 PM   #153
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A curiosity was that Ricoh delayed the DFA 70-200. Was it related to modifications that they would have had to do for the lens AF to work with a second camera body such as the full frame version of the mirror-less K-01 ?
08-19-2015, 12:50 PM   #154
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
A curiosity was that Ricoh delayed the DFA 70-200. Was it related to modifications that they would have had to do for the lens AF to work with a second camera body such as the full frame version of the mirror-less K-01 ?
My impression was it just wasn't fast enough focusing to keep up with the competition. A serious short coming for a lens that is essential for the FF and probably slated to be on the market for at least 10 years.

But if they produce an FF K-01, it would probably my best shot at owning one. The K-3 will be the way to go for wildlife, macro etc. the FF will be a landscape camera, and I've never had a problem with using the K-01 for landscape. In fact there are times when I prefer it. IF they could introduce one for roughly 2k or less that would be awesome.

08-19-2015, 12:54 PM   #155
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think the pro market is still pretty solidly SLR-centric. I don't buy that wedding shooters are going to buy 70-200 f2.8s and mount them on a mirrorless camera. As far as I know, there isn't even one available in the NEX mount, only an alpha mount one that requires a clunky adapter to use.
Sony is developing a 24-70 and 70-200 F/2.8 in their G series for FE. I doubt they will be released until the larger A9 body is announced. They just don't balance well with the A7 form factor.
(SR5) Sony officially registered a new 24-70mm FE GM lens (f/2.8?) | sonyalpharumors

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
A curiosity was that Ricoh delayed the DFA 70-200.
Probably a smart thing to do. The They don't want this lens to be reviewed with the slower AF of the K-3. Once it is reviewed I doubt people will go back and re-test it on the FF body. When this lens gets reviewed it needs to be with the new AF system in the FF.
08-19-2015, 01:18 PM   #156
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't think it matters. It isn't like Sony has made a ton of money in the mirrorless market. They have had as many false starts as they have had successes. Certainly from an existing user standpoint, Pentaxians are going to be more amenable to purchasing a traditional SLR with an OVF. Granted, there are only 50 us who want it enough to pay for it, but still, there are plenty of people who like the SLR form factor.

I think the pro market is still pretty solidly SLR-centric. I don't buy that wedding shooters are going to buy 70-200 f2.8s and mount them on a mirrorless camera. As far as I know, there isn't even one available in the NEX mount, only an alpha mount one that requires a clunky adapter to use.
My guess is that it matters enormously. Ricoh are launching a whole platform that should last for years if got right. If got wrong then either it won't sell all that well or all the profit they could have made will end up being spent on repurposing everything later. Not good news, so they have to be really shrewd about which way they jump. And none of us is in possession of the research data on which to base that decision, of course. But, no need to think it has to mean clone of A7 and a new mount. Think more of what could be done with K mount plus what is inside an A7, or the Canon mount on the same basis. My impression is that the key is combining high power electronics with newer generations of sensor which can read off the information on it incredibly quickly. That's what drives really good EVFs and all the AF stuff on show in the A7R II.

Last edited by mecrox; 08-19-2015 at 01:29 PM.
08-19-2015, 02:27 PM   #157
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
And none of us is in possession of the research data on which to base that decision, of course.
An assumption that runs through these 'full frame' threads seems to be that Ricoh are developing this camera after reading the tea leaves or the innards of a chicken.
08-19-2015, 03:07 PM   #158
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Assumption? The current lead Pentax hepatomancer is in my bowling league!

08-19-2015, 03:11 PM   #159
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QuoteQuote:
The latest FF speculation
Let no one suggest that this thread isn't living up to its title!
08-19-2015, 03:39 PM   #160
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Sony is developing a 24-70 and 70-200 F/2.8 in their G series for FE. I doubt they will be released until the larger A9 body is announced. They just don't balance well with the A7 form factor.
(SR5) Sony officially registered a new 24-70mm FE GM lens (f/2.8?) | sonyalpharumors



Probably a smart thing to do. The They don't want this lens to be reviewed with the slower AF of the K-3. Once it is reviewed I doubt people will go back and re-test it on the FF body. When this lens gets reviewed it needs to be with the new AF system in the FF.
Let's keep our fingers crossed that there is a "new AF system."
08-19-2015, 04:32 PM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by RockvilleBob Quote
Let's keep our fingers crossed that there is a "new AF system."
SOFOX needs to die. AF is the one area where we need to see a big step forward. All of the other pieces are in place for a great camera.
08-19-2015, 05:08 PM   #162
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
SOFOX needs to die. AF is the one area where we need to see a big step forward. All of the other pieces are in place for a great camera.

The K3 AF is great compared to past iterations, but Sony has phase detect on chip that's as good as the highest end systems offered by Canon. Nikon's behind the curve as well. It's an 'off the shelf' solution they'd be crazy to ignore -- it's just a question of how to utilize it and keep the 'penta' in Pentax.
08-19-2015, 05:26 PM   #163
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Pdaf on sensor are not in contradiction with DSLR design. The current pdaf is a sensor that use light going through the mirror and could go directly to the sensor if not bounced by a secondary mirror to a glass then the pdaf. If the sensitivity of the pdaf sensors and polarization of light is not a problem there, the pdaf on sensor design can work with DSLR and with OVF on / mirror down.
08-19-2015, 05:38 PM   #164
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QuoteOriginally posted by K David Quote
That's akin to saying that since we haven't seen a new camera announcement since the K-3 II that, for all we know, Ricoh could have abandoned making cameras a month ago.
Not quite. It's just recognising that all of our aspirations for the FF are [so far] built on sand. Or 3D laser-printed plastic, at best.
08-19-2015, 05:46 PM - 1 Like   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Not quite. It's just recognising that all of our aspirations for the FF are [so far] built on sand. Or 3D laser-printed plastic, at best.
For all your angst ... will you be buying one, Rawr?
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