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08-16-2015, 11:59 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
This is 2015 and we are still at it. This is depressing.
Depression will be allowed and covered by public welfare systems, if nothing new happens by the end of 2015 re. "l'Arlesienne"

08-17-2015, 12:24 AM - 1 Like   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Depression will be allowed and covered by public welfare systems, if nothing new happens by the end of 2015 re. "l'Arlesienne"
But they dunno public wellfare systems in (e.g.) north America...

So depression still an issue
08-17-2015, 01:30 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Only two? Are they even trying?
.. in October - November. They didn't say how many in December. ;-)

But seriously, it sounds great for me. Both the K-3 size and two price points from the start. (It means i probably will buy the cheaper soon rather then waiting for an expensive to become cheaper when new models get launched maybe a year or two from now. Hope both have built in astro tracer and pixel shift mode. If the speculation turns out to be on spot.
08-17-2015, 02:40 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
I don't think the FF could literally have the same body as the K-3. But what struck me when I saw the FF mockup at CP+ was how close it was in overall size and ergonomics to the K-3. People were holding their K-3s against the glass to judge how big it was and it was only really the prism that makes it any bigger.

The other mysterious thing for me was that they showed it with the FA31 attached, not their latest and greatest DFA giants. That made me think that this isn't really the model that they are meant for. That's when I started thinking that there would probably be two models, with the other one being bigger.

Let's face it, there isn't one single magic spec and price point that would keep everyone satisfied. The competitors offer products at multiple price points, and if Ricoh doesn't, their system will look very limited in comparison. Also, the logic of having to make a whole line of lenses but only having one body to capitalise on it looks suspect to me.

Actually, making camera bodies is the east part for Ricoh, comparatively. Making several new cameras a year is business as usual for camera companies. Ricoh currently make DSLRs bigger and smaller, and they redesign things like SR, AF, metering, the prism and the mirror mechanism every couple of generations anyway. Two FF cameras OK in quick succession is totally feasible.
QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Of course it would need slight body update but FF in k3 body here imo means the same as D300 body talking about the D700 which really are the same body but mirror box and prism.
All well and good. The discussion on the previous page was delving into how Pentax could released one camera with the same body type, but turn off features on the cheaper one.

I am sure that a full frame sensor would fit in a K3 body without any problem. But if Pentax is going to release a newly designed full frame body, wouldn't it make more sense to put two different sensors in it aka the K50/K500 models, rather than retro-fit the K3 body for a different sensor?

Anyway, I just think this is one of those rumors that doesn't really have much real information behind it.

08-17-2015, 04:44 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I am sure that a full frame sensor would fit in a K3 body without any problem.
I'm not sure they can put the FF SR into a K-3 body. The SR system has to get bigger in every way. looking at cutaways of the K-3 I don't think it is possible. You could squeeze the FF sensor in to the K-3 body if you took out the SR system, but Ricoh isn't going to do that (hopefully).
08-17-2015, 05:08 AM   #51
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Unless they develop a more compact SR mecanism.
08-17-2015, 05:51 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I'm not sure they can put the FF SR into a K-3 body. The SR system has to get bigger in every way. looking at cutaways of the K-3 I don't think it is possible. You could squeeze the FF sensor in to the K-3 body if you took out the SR system, but Ricoh isn't going to do that (hopefully).
Same with pentaprism for FF : it definitely doesn't fit in K-3 body unless ridiculous magnification and coverage.
08-17-2015, 06:59 AM   #53
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The K-3 was designed for aps-c. Apart from sr and pentaprism, the mirror housing has the grow. I don't think there is a lot of empty space around it. You'd have to totally redesign it and you'd still have a compromise. Much cheaper to use the FF base for a second maybe more compact en cheaper FF.

08-17-2015, 08:04 AM   #54
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Eat my hat.

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
But if Ricoh releases two full frames models with the same body, what are you going to do ?


---------- Post added 08-17-15 at 08:20 AM ----------

Here's a video I just took of the limits of the sensor shift mechanism range on a K-01 I conveniently have disassembled. Presumably this is similar in dimensions to the SR system on the K-3. Apologies for the low quality, as it was taken on my phone.

If you look at the image, there are three metal bands held in place with two screws each. Under these are the ball bearings that the SR mechanism floats on. The SR is controlled by electromagnets on the 4 sides of the floating sensor mount. I've turned the camera off so the sensor can float freely (the familiar clunking sound you hear when Pentax SR cameras are turned off). As you can see, there is not a lot of movement going on to begin with. Basically about 3-5mm in each direction on each axis. (6-10mm total play)

A FF sensor is 36x24mm, whereas an APS-C is 23.6mm x15.6mm

So you are losing 12.4mm of play on the X axis and 8.4 on the Y axis. This is close to or larger than the amount of play in the existing SR system.

A drop-in solution looks to be absolutely out of the question.




QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I'm not sure they can put the FF SR into a K-3 body. The SR system has to get bigger in every way. looking at cutaways of the K-3 I don't think it is possible. You could squeeze the FF sensor in to the K-3 body if you took out the SR system, but Ricoh isn't going to do that (hopefully).

Last edited by dcshooter; 08-17-2015 at 08:24 AM.
08-17-2015, 08:21 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Eat my hat.

(...)
Bon appétit !
08-17-2015, 01:35 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
'm not sure they can put the FF SR into a K-3 body.
Pentax engineers could probably do it. The IBIS mechanism in the 24MP Sony A7 II, for example, as one can see from LensRental's teardown of the A7II, shows that SR does add bulk but can be made rather compact, even for a FF. The basic design of the mechanism resembles Pentax SR a lot, the image circle of E-mount is about the same as K-mount, and the K-3 body is larger than the A7 II too.
08-17-2015, 02:02 PM   #57
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If any of you have seen a Pentax APS-C DSLR cut in half, you will see that about 1/4 of the mirror box is taken up by the PDAF system at the bottom. It protrudes well into the lens mount circle, all the way up to the bottom of the APS-C sensor, which is not a problem because of APS-C coverage, but will most certainly interfere with a FF mirror and image circle.

There is no room to expand upwards because of the pentaprism, and no room to expand downwards because of the PDAF system. If Pentax could somehow shrink the PDAF system and pentaprism while at the same time making their coverage significantly larger, that would be quite the feat of wizardry (and something not supported by their trend of forgoing small size in favor of optical performance in their recent lenses like the 16-85, 70-200 and 150-450).

And yes, you would have to expand both upwards and downwards, because if you move the sensor downwards, it will no longer be centered on the lens mount. And the lens mount cannot be moved downwards because that would be off the body.

No, I'd say there is a 0% chance of cramming a FF sensor in the K-3 body.

Last edited by Cannikin; 08-17-2015 at 02:30 PM.
08-17-2015, 02:18 PM   #58
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FF? There goes my household budget!!
08-17-2015, 02:28 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
If any of you have seen a Pentax APS-C DSLR cut in half, you will see that about 1/4 of the mirror box is taken up by the PDAF system at the bottom. It protrudes well into the lens mount circle, which is not a problem because of APS-C coverage, but will most certainly interfere with a FF mirror and image circle.

There is no room to expand upwards because of the pentaprism, and no room to expand downwards because of the PDAF system. If Pentax could somehow shrink the PDAF system and pentaprism while at the same time making their coverage significantly larger, that would be quite the feat of wizardry (and something not supported by their trend of forgoing small size for optical performance in their recent lenses like the 16-85, 70-200 and 150-450).

And yes, you would have to expand both upwards and downwards, because if you move the sensor downwards, it will no longer be centered on the lens mount. And the lens mount cannot be moved downwards because that would be off the body.

No, I'd say there is a 0% chance of cramming a FF sensor in the K-3 body.
Well if you don't try to force the idea literally it is possible.. K-3 body can mean face value the actual K-3 body, a modified K-3 body, or a body that is K-3 like..
08-17-2015, 02:31 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
If any of you have seen a Pentax APS-C DSLR cut in half, you will see that about 1/4 of the mirror box is taken up by the PDAF system at the bottom. It protrudes well into the lens mount circle, all the way up to the bottom of the APS-C sensor, which is not a problem because of APS-C coverage, but will most certainly interfere with a FF mirror and image circle.

There is no room to expand upwards because of the pentaprism, and no room to expand downwards because of the PDAF system. If Pentax could somehow shrink the PDAF system and pentaprism while at the same time making their coverage significantly larger, that would be quite the feat of wizardry (and something not supported by their trend of forgoing small size in favor of optical performance in their recent lenses like the 16-85, 70-200 and 150-450).

And yes, you would have to expand both upwards and downwards, because if you move the sensor downwards, it will no longer be centered on the lens mount. And the lens mount cannot be moved downwards because that would be off the body.

No, I'd say there is a 0% chance of cramming a FF sensor in the K-3 body.
Hybrid on-sensor PDAF?
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