Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-17-2015, 03:03 PM - 1 Like   #61
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Central Ohio (formerly SF Bay Area)
Posts: 1,464
I'm honestly surprised at how much "nuh uh, no way, can't do it, impossible" there is in this thread.

I'm not going to be a Pentax apologist -- I have seen too many flubs in recent years to give them a complete pass -- but have a little faith in the talent, cleverness, competence, and perseverance of the engineers who have worked on this!

08-17-2015, 03:07 PM   #62
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SW Washington
Posts: 814
QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Well if you don't try to force the idea literally it is possible.. K-3 body can mean face value the actual K-3 body, a modified K-3 body, or a body that is K-3 like..
At the very least it would have to be about 1cm or so taller than the K-3 to accommodate the expanded mirror box/sensor and larger viewfinder. Which is pretty much what the CP+ FF mockup looks like to me.

So I guess that ends up being whether you consider the FF mockup as just a modified K-3 body that's about 1cm taller, with a pointy viewfinder hump and minus the headphone jack hump, or a separate "new" body.

QuoteOriginally posted by geomez Quote
Hybrid on-sensor PDAF?
I assume you mean getting rid of the separate PDAF system entirely and going with on-sensor. That would mean either going full mirrorless or heavily redesigning the mirror beam splitter to redirect light towards the sensor (which still wouldn't solve the lens mount centering issue by shifting the center of the sensor downwards).

Yeah, I don't think Ricoh is going to spend millions in R&D to bend over backwards making everything somehow fit in the K-3, probably making several performance compromises along the way, when they could just solve everything by simply making the chassis 1cm taller (which is apparently what they did with the mockup). Especially since the rumor is the "K-3 body FF" is the "budget" model.

It's not like that would make it gigantic either. The K-3 and K-5 series are already the smallest in the high end APS-C class. Increasing the height would only make it about the overall size of the D7200 (minus the pointy tip of the viewfinder hump).

Last edited by Cannikin; 08-17-2015 at 03:36 PM.
08-17-2015, 03:44 PM   #63
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern Indiana
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 14,957
QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Well if you don't try to force the idea literally it is possible.. K-3 body can mean face value the actual K-3 body, a modified K-3 body, or a body that is K-3 like..
But why?

Let's see that there is a flagship camera that is coming out with a new style body, that has plenty of space for the sensor and wiring and whatever else you need to put in a full frame camera, why would you not use that? Why would you use a K3 body instead?
08-17-2015, 04:10 PM   #64
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,416
QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
I'm honestly surprised at how much "nuh uh, no way, can't do it, impossible" there is in this thread.

I'm not going to be a Pentax apologist -- I have seen too many flubs in recent years to give them a complete pass -- but have a little faith in the talent, cleverness, competence, and perseverance of the engineers who have worked on this!
I agree. Ricoh knows they can't just warm up the K-3 with a FF sensor and be successful. The FF is going to have to have some of the new technology that Ricoh has patented over the last few years.

Switchable mirror?
Hybrid OVF?
New AF technology?

All things Ricoh has filed a patent on in the last few years. When it comes to cutting edge technology, the bar is pretty high right now. If Rich wants to get anyone attention outside of the K-mount loyalists, they have to come out with something innovative.

08-17-2015, 04:20 PM   #65
Pentaxian
mecrox's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,912
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I agree. Ricoh knows they can't just warm up the K-3 with a FF sensor and be successful. The FF is going to have to have some of the new technology that Ricoh has patented over the last few years.

Switchable mirror?
Hybrid OVF?
New AF technology?

All things Ricoh has filed a patent on in the last few years. When it comes to cutting edge technology, the bar is pretty high right now. If Rich wants to get anyone attention outside of the K-mount loyalists, they have to come out with something innovative.
I rather hope they don't. The last time Ricoh tried something truly innovative we got the GXR, with a great deal to admire but one guesses a sales failure and a cul de sac. People spending a lot of money on this stuff, and especially anyone who earns a living from it, surely want something above all which works very well, is predictable and doesn't require re-learning "how to use a camera". This may be a little dull perhaps, but so long as it is up there with the best of breed and does what it says on the tin, folks are generally happy. A case in point is a hybrid VF, basicaly an OVF with an EVF overlay that can be switched on and off. Unless this works absolutely brilliantly and without fault, it will be more of a hindrance than a help and many users might feel they'd be better off with a conventional EVF (dons tinfoil hat). Of course, if Ricoh can get such an innovation to work to top standards ...
08-17-2015, 04:25 PM   #66
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 360
QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
I assume you mean getting rid of the separate PDAF system entirely and going with on-sensor. That would mean either going full mirrorless or heavily redesigning the mirror beam splitter to redirect light towards the sensor.
What about removing the secondary mirror ? The second flux goes directly to the sensor with pdaf sensors on it. The mirror is simplified, the body is more compact. What would be the drawback of such design ?
08-17-2015, 04:32 PM   #67
mee
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 5,258
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
But why?

Let's see that there is a flagship camera that is coming out with a new style body, that has plenty of space for the sensor and wiring and whatever else you need to put in a full frame camera, why would you not use that? Why would you use a K3 body instead?
Cost? less retooling? Differentiate it from the flagship visibly? I'm not sure exactly..
08-17-2015, 04:54 PM   #68
Pentaxian
noelpolar's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Goolwa, SA
Posts: 3,003
I'd take the rumor as implying the K3 like camera is the one we were shown....similar in type, layout etc. The Pro one would be a larger body ala the pro competition. Showing us the K3 type one was all the hand they needed to show us at that time.


Last edited by noelpolar; 08-17-2015 at 05:06 PM.
08-17-2015, 04:58 PM   #69
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SW Washington
Posts: 814
QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Cost? less retooling? Differentiate it from the flagship visibly? I'm not sure exactly..
It wouldn't do any of those things. I'm very certain the cost and retooling by simply go with a slightly larger metal chassis and reusing mature technology is far less than inventing some incredible technological, geometric and optical wizardry while trying to cram things with more than 50% greater linear dimensions into a body which is already about as tightly packed as is physically possible with APS-C components (not to mention already significantly more compact than others in the high-end APS-C class). And if visual differentiation were a concern, why would they make something in a totally different class look exactly the same as the K-3?
08-17-2015, 05:11 PM   #70
Lens Buying Addict
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,494
QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
And if visual differentiation were a concern, why would they make something in a totally different class look exactly the same as the K-3?
I've thought most* Pentax cameras were visually attractive designs - some such as the SV are beautiful - and I expect the same from the FF.




* SFx bodies were clearly exceptions
08-17-2015, 05:21 PM   #71
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SW Washington
Posts: 814
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I've thought most* Pentax cameras were visually attractive designs - some such as the SV are beautiful - and I expect the same from the FF.
I like the look and design of Pentax DSLRs as well (especially compared to the Canikon "melted plastic" look), but I guess this comes down to the difference between "similar designs" and "the same body".

The K-5 series and the K-3 series are visually very similar (minus the headphone jack hump). But I don't think anyone calls the K-3 body the same as the K-5. So it goes with the K-3 and the FF(s). To me the FF mockup looks like the K-3/K-5 scaled up vertically and with a larger, pointy viewfinder hump. Is that what the rumor considers "the K-3 body"?

If so, sure, that's what we've been expecting. If they literally mean fitting FF into the K-3 chassis, then no, that is clearly impossible without very costly and lengthy R&D to produce revolutionary optical and electronic technology, all to reuse a hunk of metal which is about 10% shorter.
08-17-2015, 05:36 PM   #72
Lens Buying Addict
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,494
I expect the FF will not be an actual K-3 body with a complete FF camera squeezed inside. I also don't believe it will draw from the K10/K20 ethic, as some suggest.

I do think, though, it will be an evolution of the basic design theme evident since the K-7, rather than a revolution. It will be recognizably Pentax.
08-17-2015, 06:08 PM   #73
Pentaxian
konraDarnok's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Photos: Albums
Posts: 960
They've been working toward the grand scheme: The K1, K2, and K3II

Just like Canon they can keep issuing revision numerals. K1II, K2II etc. Where else are they going to go?
08-17-2015, 08:33 PM   #74
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Southern Calif
Posts: 557
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
They've been working toward the grand scheme: The K1, K2, and K3II

Just like Canon they can keep issuing revision numerals. K1II, K2II etc. Where else are they going to go?
K1 deux, K2 deux, K3 deux
08-17-2015, 09:31 PM - 1 Like   #75
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,596
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Switchable mirror?
Hybrid OVF?
New AF technology?
Lasers would be cool too.
Pls add that to the list Ricoh.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
axis, body, camera, d810, ff, frame, hardware, k-3, mechanism, nikon, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, photogs, post, price, res, ricoh, sensor, sr, system, thread
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pure speculation... FF to include GPS? Conqueror Pentax Full Frame 21 06-19-2015 11:42 AM
Speculation: What if Pentax did not go FF but rather a 1.3x? brecklundin Pentax DSLR Discussion 36 08-13-2013 10:36 PM
Anyone heard of the latest FF rumor on Pentax Discuss Mail List? LFLee Pentax Full Frame 39 07-03-2013 02:05 PM
The latest pentax ff news!! PentaxSX Pentax Full Frame 10 03-24-2013 06:33 AM
speculation about FA lenses on FF DSLR lpfonseca Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 19 11-05-2009 10:34 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:46 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top