The latest FF speculation

mecrox · 08-19-2015, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

I don't think it matters. It isn't like Sony has made a ton of money in the mirrorless market. They have had as many false starts as they have had successes. Certainly from an existing user standpoint, Pentaxians are going to be more amenable to purchasing a traditional SLR with an OVF. Granted, there are only 50 us who want it enough to pay for it, but still, there are plenty of people who like the SLR form factor.

I think the pro market is still pretty solidly SLR-centric. I don't buy that wedding shooters are going to buy 70-200 f2.8s and mount them on a mirrorless camera. As far as I know, there isn't even one available in the NEX mount, only an alpha mount one that requires a clunky adapter to use.

My guess is that it matters enormously. Ricoh are launching a whole platform that should last for years if got right. If got wrong then either it won't sell all that well or all the profit they could have made will end up being spent on repurposing everything later. Not good news, so they have to be really shrewd about which way they jump. And none of us is in possession of the research data on which to base that decision, of course. But, no need to think it has to mean clone of A7 and a new mount. Think more of what could be done with K mount plus what is inside an A7, or the Canon mount on the same basis. My impression is that the key is combining high power electronics with newer generations of sensor which can read off the information on it incredibly quickly. That's what drives really good EVFs and all the AF stuff on show in the A7R II.

Last edited by mecrox; 08-19-2015 at 01:29 PM.

mohb · 08-19-2015, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by mecrox

And none of us is in possession of the research data on which to base that decision, of course.

An assumption that runs through these 'full frame' threads seems to be that Ricoh are developing this camera after reading the tea leaves or the innards of a chicken.

jcdoss · 08-19-2015, 03:07 PM

Assumption? The current lead Pentax hepatomancer is in my bowling league!

Quicksand · 08-19-2015, 03:11 PM

Quote:

The latest FF speculation

Let no one suggest that this thread isn't living up to its title!

RockvilleBob · 08-19-2015, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by Winder

Sony is developing a 24-70 and 70-200 F/2.8 in their G series for FE. I doubt they will be released until the larger A9 body is announced. They just don't balance well with the A7 form factor.
(SR5) Sony officially registered a new 24-70mm FE GM lens (f/2.8?) | sonyalpharumors

Probably a smart thing to do. The They don't want this lens to be reviewed with the slower AF of the K-3. Once it is reviewed I doubt people will go back and re-test it on the FF body. When this lens gets reviewed it needs to be with the new AF system in the FF.

Let's keep our fingers crossed that there is a "new AF system."

Winder · 08-19-2015, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by RockvilleBob

Let's keep our fingers crossed that there is a "new AF system."

SOFOX needs to die. AF is the one area where we need to see a big step forward. All of the other pieces are in place for a great camera.

konraDarnok · 08-19-2015, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by Winder

SOFOX needs to die. AF is the one area where we need to see a big step forward. All of the other pieces are in place for a great camera.

The K3 AF is great compared to past iterations, but Sony has phase detect on chip that's as good as the highest end systems offered by Canon. Nikon's behind the curve as well. It's an 'off the shelf' solution they'd be crazy to ignore -- it's just a question of how to utilize it and keep the 'penta' in Pentax.

Glorfindelrb · 08-19-2015, 05:26 PM

Pdaf on sensor are not in contradiction with DSLR design. The current pdaf is a sensor that use light going through the mirror and could go directly to the sensor if not bounced by a secondary mirror to a glass then the pdaf. If the sensitivity of the pdaf sensors and polarization of light is not a problem there, the pdaf on sensor design can work with DSLR and with OVF on / mirror down.

rawr · 08-19-2015, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by K David

That's akin to saying that since we haven't seen a new camera announcement since the K-3 II that, for all we know, Ricoh could have abandoned making cameras a month ago.

Not quite. It's just recognising that all of our aspirations for the FF are [so far] built on sand. Or 3D laser-printed plastic, at best.

**clackers** · 08-19-2015, 05:46 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by rawr

Not quite. It's just recognising that all of our aspirations for the FF are [so far] built on sand. Or 3D laser-printed plastic, at best.

For all your angst ... will you be buying one, Rawr?

rawr · 08-19-2015, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by clackers

will you be buying one, Rawr?

Sure. I might even buy both.

I have over 30 K-mount lenses and over a dozen are FF glass. The latter will need a home.

**clackers** · 08-19-2015, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by rawr

Sure. I might even buy both.

I have over 30 K-mount lenses and over a dozen are FF glass. The latter will need a home.

Ah, you're the kid lying awake on Christmas night, wondering if Santa will actually bring you that bike!

I won't be able to afford one, so will have to wait for second hand examples when newer models come out, etc.

I'm the kid only getting a lump of coal in their stocking. 😀

gmans · 08-19-2015, 06:39 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by clackers

Ah, you're the kid lying awake on Christmas night, wondering if Santa will actually bring you that bike!

I won't be able to afford one, so will have to wait for second hand examples when newer models come out, etc.

I'm the kid only getting a lump of coal in their stocking. 😀

Coal in your stocking, you were lucky, we used to get a piece of old charcoal and good thrashing as well.

normhead · 08-19-2015, 06:41 PM

I believe my most recent speculation on the FF was that it would be out 2 months ago at the latest. Since then I'm actually not speculating much. But we know the D FA 70-200 has pretty much disappeared. So, that's the only FF specific lens we knew of. the D FA 150-450 was way ever due as an APS-c lens. It makes you wonder if Pentax actually had the technical expertise to pull this off. I think if things had gone well, the 70-200 would be on the shelves and the FF would be announced. After all, Sept. is just around the corner. Surely the FF won't have a 2 weeks before it's available in the stores announcement like the K-3. It's not like they have an FF competitor and they need to clear inventory before the announcement. IN Pentax land.. no news is good news, the disappearance of the 70-200 is bad news. The current good bad meter is pointed down towards bad now with a D FA 70-200 ƒ2.8 sticky note on it.

But it does beg the question for all the FF wannabes... if the FF comes out and all you have are the lenses available now, are you going for it?

And no, I won't stop calling you Shirley.

rawr · 08-19-2015, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by clackers

I won't be able to afford one, so will have to wait for second hand examples when newer models come out, etc.

I won't be first in line at the nearest camera store on FF day. Unless the release price is a real bargain or they craft some interesting package deals, I'll wait a bit. I'll buy, but not impulsively.

I certainly hope the new Pentax toys will have some real sparkle, and not be mere lumps of coal.

08-19-2015, 06:19 PM	#162
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by rawr Sure. I might even buy both. I have over 30 K-mount lenses and over a dozen are FF glass. The latter will need a home. Ah, you're the kid lying awake on Christmas night, wondering if Santa will actually bring you that bike! I won't be able to afford one, so will have to wait for second hand examples when newer models come out, etc. I'm the kid only getting a lump of coal in their stocking. 😀 Last edited by clackers; 08-19-2015 at 06:29 PM.

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08-19-2015, 01:18 PM	#151
mecrox Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by Rondec I don't think it matters. It isn't like Sony has made a ton of money in the mirrorless market. They have had as many false starts as they have had successes. Certainly from an existing user standpoint, Pentaxians are going to be more amenable to purchasing a traditional SLR with an OVF. Granted, there are only 50 us who want it enough to pay for it, but still, there are plenty of people who like the SLR form factor. I think the pro market is still pretty solidly SLR-centric. I don't buy that wedding shooters are going to buy 70-200 f2.8s and mount them on a mirrorless camera. As far as I know, there isn't even one available in the NEX mount, only an alpha mount one that requires a clunky adapter to use. My guess is that it matters enormously. Ricoh are launching a whole platform that should last for years if got right. If got wrong then either it won't sell all that well or all the profit they could have made will end up being spent on repurposing everything later. Not good news, so they have to be really shrewd about which way they jump. And none of us is in possession of the research data on which to base that decision, of course. But, no need to think it has to mean clone of A7 and a new mount. Think more of what could be done with K mount plus what is inside an A7, or the Canon mount on the same basis. My impression is that the key is combining high power electronics with newer generations of sensor which can read off the information on it incredibly quickly. That's what drives really good EVFs and all the AF stuff on show in the A7R II. Last edited by mecrox; 08-19-2015 at 01:29 PM.

08-19-2015, 02:27 PM	#152
mohb Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,912	Originally posted by mecrox And none of us is in possession of the research data on which to base that decision, of course. An assumption that runs through these 'full frame' threads seems to be that Ricoh are developing this camera after reading the tea leaves or the innards of a chicken.

08-19-2015, 03:07 PM	#153
jcdoss Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Ingelheim am Rhein, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,757	Assumption? The current lead Pentax hepatomancer is in my bowling league!

08-19-2015, 03:11 PM	#154
Quicksand Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Ohio (formerly SF Bay Area) Posts: 1,519	Quote: The latest FF speculation Let no one suggest that this thread isn't living up to its title!

08-19-2015, 03:39 PM	#155
RockvilleBob Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Lewes DE USA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,780	Originally posted by Winder Sony is developing a 24-70 and 70-200 F/2.8 in their G series for FE. I doubt they will be released until the larger A9 body is announced. They just don't balance well with the A7 form factor. (SR5) Sony officially registered a new 24-70mm FE GM lens (f/2.8?) \| sonyalpharumors Probably a smart thing to do. The They don't want this lens to be reviewed with the slower AF of the K-3. Once it is reviewed I doubt people will go back and re-test it on the FF body. When this lens gets reviewed it needs to be with the new AF system in the FF. Let's keep our fingers crossed that there is a "new AF system."

08-19-2015, 04:32 PM	#156
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by RockvilleBob Let's keep our fingers crossed that there is a "new AF system." SOFOX needs to die. AF is the one area where we need to see a big step forward. All of the other pieces are in place for a great camera.

08-19-2015, 05:08 PM	#157
konraDarnok Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Photos: Albums Posts: 969	Originally posted by Winder SOFOX needs to die. AF is the one area where we need to see a big step forward. All of the other pieces are in place for a great camera. The K3 AF is great compared to past iterations, but Sony has phase detect on chip that's as good as the highest end systems offered by Canon. Nikon's behind the curve as well. It's an 'off the shelf' solution they'd be crazy to ignore -- it's just a question of how to utilize it and keep the 'penta' in Pentax.

08-19-2015, 05:26 PM	#158
Glorfindelrb Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 364	Pdaf on sensor are not in contradiction with DSLR design. The current pdaf is a sensor that use light going through the mirror and could go directly to the sensor if not bounced by a secondary mirror to a glass then the pdaf. If the sensitivity of the pdaf sensors and polarization of light is not a problem there, the pdaf on sensor design can work with DSLR and with OVF on / mirror down.

08-19-2015, 05:38 PM	#159
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by K David That's akin to saying that since we haven't seen a new camera announcement since the K-3 II that, for all we know, Ricoh could have abandoned making cameras a month ago. Not quite. It's just recognising that all of our aspirations for the FF are [so far] built on sand. Or 3D laser-printed plastic, at best.

08-19-2015, 05:46 PM - 1 Like	#160
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by rawr Not quite. It's just recognising that all of our aspirations for the FF are [so far] built on sand. Or 3D laser-printed plastic, at best. For all your angst ... will you be buying one, Rawr?

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08-19-2015, 05:50 PM	#161
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by clackers will you be buying one, Rawr? Sure. I might even buy both. I have over 30 K-mount lenses and over a dozen are FF glass. The latter will need a home.

08-19-2015, 06:39 PM - 1 Like	#163
gmans Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Hunter Valley,NSW, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,466	Originally posted by clackers Ah, you're the kid lying awake on Christmas night, wondering if Santa will actually bring you that bike! I won't be able to afford one, so will have to wait for second hand examples when newer models come out, etc. I'm the kid only getting a lump of coal in their stocking. 😀 Coal in your stocking, you were lucky, we used to get a piece of old charcoal and good thrashing as well.

08-19-2015, 06:41 PM	#164
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,449	I believe my most recent speculation on the FF was that it would be out 2 months ago at the latest. Since then I'm actually not speculating much. But we know the D FA 70-200 has pretty much disappeared. So, that's the only FF specific lens we knew of. the D FA 150-450 was way ever due as an APS-c lens. It makes you wonder if Pentax actually had the technical expertise to pull this off. I think if things had gone well, the 70-200 would be on the shelves and the FF would be announced. After all, Sept. is just around the corner. Surely the FF won't have a 2 weeks before it's available in the stores announcement like the K-3. It's not like they have an FF competitor and they need to clear inventory before the announcement. IN Pentax land.. no news is good news, the disappearance of the 70-200 is bad news. The current good bad meter is pointed down towards bad now with a D FA 70-200 ƒ2.8 sticky note on it. But it does beg the question for all the FF wannabes... if the FF comes out and all you have are the lenses available now, are you going for it? And no, I won't stop calling you Shirley.

08-19-2015, 07:07 PM	#165
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by clackers I won't be able to afford one, so will have to wait for second hand examples when newer models come out, etc. I won't be first in line at the nearest camera store on FF day. Unless the release price is a real bargain or they craft some interesting package deals, I'll wait a bit. I'll buy, but not impulsively. I certainly hope the new Pentax toys will have some real sparkle, and not be mere lumps of coal.