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08-20-2015, 07:37 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
funny, I think the opposite, a nice resolution upgrade from any K-5 /K-01 type camera plus throw in the KS-1, K50, K30 and with a tilting back screen, a no brainer for macro shooters. I'm not that enamoured with the move from 16 to 24 MP on my K-3, and I'm a zoom guy. So I'm thinking a K-S2 and frame a bit tighter and you have the same thing for many images. I'm not sure why you wouldn't consider a K-S2 major upgrade over any of the above mentioned 16 MP cameras. having recently gone back to using a K-5 for a day or two, 11 focus points was definitely a mistake. It would be the one thing I couldn't get used to. However, Tess is shooting with a K-5. Things won't be any different for her.
Oh, I think it's a good upgrade for Pentax. However, I was responding to how it compares to the competitors which is the usual - Pentax being 1 step behind. The tilt screen, wifi, nfc are not ground breaking by the time Pentax got to them. So, in comparison, the advantages are still the usual WR, penta prism, etc since the K-30 days. (give or take) Plus, MILC is the talk of the town now so no matter how solid K-S2 is, it won't be on people's radar.

I really hope they do a proper K-01 successor with PDAF, EVF, eye tracking etc. It won't be small due to K mount but at least it's unique.

08-20-2015, 07:38 PM - 2 Likes   #32
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I did the survey. It was interesting timing. I am considering a K-S2, but:
  • would like my next camera to be full frame
  • would prefer to have an electronic viewfinder, so that live-view is full time and the mirror doesn't have to flop around

I LOVED the picture quality of my K-01. But without a viewfinder, and no tilt screen, it was tough to use outside or at odd angles. I sold it, replacing it with a Fuji X-E1 to get a viewfinder.

If the K-S2 had an EVF, I would buy it in a second.

If the K-S2 had a full-frame sensor at a low price (D600 price), I would buy it in a second.

If the K-S2 had BOTH and EVF and full-frame, it would be my main camera, replacing all others.

The K-S2 currently has neither of these things. So, I haven't bought it yet, and I'm waiting to see what Pentax releases with full frame and/or EVF.
08-20-2015, 09:08 PM   #33
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I told them that K-S2 looks too effeminate. It is not a DSLR that communicated quality nor robustness.
If they want to flatter girls, they have Q-S1 cameras with kinky colours.
Today we have too many flimsy, 'pretty' cameras.

Either make a DSLR that is a good and robust and innovative DSLR, or commit to mirrorless, but don't compromise on DSLR design that is neither fish nor fowl, a hermaphrodite type of a camera because a new management doesn't really know what it wants.

On the other side, K-30 was bold and it made quite a splash. Good design.
K-50 looked more timid. Boring, politically correct design. Pentax is confused.
K-S2 has become a Venus in pants; Pentax has lost identity.
K-S3 will perhaps come with a pink lipstick and bra in the box. Pentax has changed sex.

Last edited by Uluru; 08-20-2015 at 09:14 PM.
08-20-2015, 09:25 PM - 4 Likes   #34
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Even if that were true, I see no problem with making products that might appeal to women. They can ask their husband's permission to buy it. Fun fact - did you know some Australian women go shopping without chaperones?

08-20-2015, 09:27 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Imp Quote
But at least they're doing it! We could give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm glad they've done this.

I said it would be nice to have better tethering, for all dslr cameras, as well as external battery grips, and more telephoto zoom/prime lenses.
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I got the email alsoand did the survery. At firsst I was pleased, even though it was only a SurveMonkey. Then I was annoyed that it changed to a fleeing like an under the table marketing message for the K-S2.

But I finally decided that as an owner of so many Pentax cameras I'm really not a good respondent - I'm already convinced on the big stuff.

I learned more about myself than they ;learned about me.
I made some of the suggestions already mentioned in this thread. I also suggested that all Pentax DSLR's should have a quiet shutter. And I mentioned that, as an ardent K-01 enthusiast, I am really looking forward to a future K-mount mirrorless.

So, although I was (and am) skeptical of the impact this survey will have, I said my piece.

---------- Post added 08-21-15 at 12:28 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
I don't trust online surveys. They are asking for gender, age, hobbies, and email address. There's no privacy statement. Ricoh, SurveyMonkey, or another 3rd party involved with this can (and likely will) resell that data to help bypass spam filters.
I believe you only needed to provide an email address if you wished to have an opportunity to win w Q-S1. Anyway, like many folks, I have an email addy specifically for this kind of thing.

---------- Post added 08-21-15 at 12:39 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by calsan Quote
Even if that were true, I see no problem with making products that might appeal to women. They can ask their husband's permission to buy it. Fun fact - did you know some Australian women go shopping without chaperones?
Some people are not only trolls, they are also misogynists.
08-20-2015, 10:48 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by calsan Quote
Even if that were true, I see no problem with making products that might appeal to women. They can ask their husband's permission to buy it. Fun fact - did you know some Australian women go shopping without chaperones?
K-S2 surely does; it is so small and 'flat' it is unusable and slippery in man's hands, and the grip is not available for that camera.
Colourful Q-S1 too is cute for women, because men must use Q-S1 with two toothpicks.



---------- Post added 08-21-2015 at 03:50 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote

Some people are not only trolls, they are also misogynists.
Some are misinformed about good product design.

In other words, there is nothing 'misogynist' in my answer, it is in the product that is misandrist.
K-S1/S2 are two misandrist (opposite of misogynist, which means discriminating against men) products.
While women can use all Pentax DSLRs, and compacts, men can comfortably use only one, or two — the K3 with grip and 645Z.

Being a man, my choices are limited and crippled by Pentax's new management. They have a bias, not me, because since K-30, their entry and mid level K-mount cameras are becoming impossible to use comfortably by men anymore. I am showing a clear trend, whether you like the conclusion or not.

That is why I stated: either switch to small-slippery-form mirrorless, or don't compromise the DSLR design. If the K-S2 sales are lacking, then consider this complaint: in order to get users shopping for mirrorless, they compromise heavily on users who expect quality DSLRs.
If Pentax is to become such a confused brand, or catering for women only, then they better tell and I shall switch to Nikon.

Last edited by Uluru; 08-20-2015 at 11:07 PM.
08-20-2015, 11:00 PM - 3 Likes   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Some stuff about product design...
Ok. So you're not a fan of some of the designs. That's all fine and good, but lets leave the perceived "gender differences" out of it and just discuss the designs themselves, ok? Small hands and big hands may require different kinds of ergonomics and strength may influence what is comfortable to carry and handle, but these are hardly gender specific. Same with ergonomic preferences. Peace~~
08-20-2015, 11:20 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by fromunderthebridge Quote
Ok. So you're not a fan of some of the designs. That's all fine and good, but lets leave the perceived "gender differences" out of it and just discuss the designs themselves, ok? Small hands and big hands may require different kinds of ergonomics and strength may influence what is comfortable to carry and handle, but these are hardly gender specific. Same with ergonomic preferences. Peace~~
Some things are gender-intrinsic, like size of hands, thickness of fingers, etc.
This is not a complaint about women, this is a complaint about bad and confused product design, which is unusable for 50% of the population.
And it is confirmed in fact that Pentax does not make a grip for K-S cameras. Who is discriminating here — me or Pentax? They come with a radical design, but are too lazy to consider a grip. Then Pentax forces me to get a 645Z or a K-3, the only camera they have a grip for. Their product design management should be fired.

08-21-2015, 12:21 AM - 1 Like   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Some things are gender-intrinsic, like size of hands, thickness of fingers, etc.
But there are many other factors too, FI an average male in Indonesia most likely have smaller hands than average woman in Australia.
QuoteQuote:
This is not a complaint about women, this is a complaint about bad and confused product design, which is unusable for 50% of the population.
But isn't that good that Pentax have cameras designed for different types of persons, suited for both small and large hands? So that they cover the need of more than just the average western male?
QuoteQuote:
And it is confirmed in fact that Pentax does not make a grip for K-S cameras. Who is discriminating here — me or Pentax? They come with a radical design, but are too lazy to consider a grip. Then Pentax forces me to get a 645Z or a K-3, the only camera they have a grip for. Their product design management should be fired.
Pentax do not force you to do anything, it's just that you have a preference for the higher end cameras. They give you what you want.
Why do you expect cameras designed for a different type of user to offer you the same thing?
08-21-2015, 05:49 AM   #40
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@Uluru, we get it, Pentax hates you.

I must be a wussy girlie-man (yes, sarcasm) because I can use my tiny Ricoh GR. Yet I can also comfortably hold a K-3, which is reportedly made only for the mightiest, most massive, male hands. Does not compute.
08-21-2015, 06:04 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
I don't trust online surveys. They are asking for gender, age, hobbies, and email address. There's no privacy statement. Ricoh, SurveyMonkey, or another 3rd party involved with this can (and likely will) resell that data to help bypass spam filters.
Actually you only need your email if you want to enter their drawing. You can put down your neighbor's email if you think he or she needs a camera.

As far as age and gender, anybody who sees me is pretty close on those.

Hobbies? Put down anything. Sometimes I put down all the things I do not do. It depends whose survey it is.

Just give valid answers to the meat of the survey.

Have fun.
08-21-2015, 06:20 AM   #42
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I'm happy Pentax sent out a survey, because I buy their stuff. I kept my answers simple, broad and understandable, I din't try and micro-manage the company. Based on the questions, I think Pentax is trying to see how long they should run keep the K-S2 production line going.It also gave me a chance to ask for a mirrorless K-01 type FF for landscape shooters. I appreciate that they are giving me a forum to make these kinds of requests. Beyond that, someone at pentax is going to read this stuff, but I suspect it will be someone in marketing, at least initially. I don't see this as a direct line to the engineering department.
08-21-2015, 06:27 AM   #43
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I agree, it would have been great if a battery grip was provided. I would have even chosen it over the K-3II if there was a battery grip. However, the reviews says that the camera can hold its own. And, I don't question Pentax's reason for their design. Probably it was their answer to a certain demand for light, compact and fully functional DSLRs.
08-21-2015, 06:46 AM - 2 Likes   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
IIt also gave me a chance to ask for a mirrorless K-01 type FF for landscape shooters.
I also asked for a FF K-01. Maybe if enough of us mention it . . .
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
They have a bias, not me, because since K-30, their entry and mid level K-mount cameras are becoming impossible to use comfortably by men anymore.
If your comfort as a man was impinged by the change from K-30 to K-50,
then you have problems that Ricoh/Pentax are not going to be able to help you with.

Better avoid those ED lenses, too!
08-21-2015, 08:05 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Some things are gender-intrinsic, like size of hands, thickness of fingers, etc.
This is not a complaint about women, this is a complaint about bad and confused product design, which is unusable for 50% of the population.
And it is confirmed in fact that Pentax does not make a grip for K-S cameras. Who is discriminating here — me or Pentax? They come with a radical design, but are too lazy to consider a grip. Then Pentax forces me to get a 645Z or a K-3, the only camera they have a grip for. Their product design management should be fired.
You've got to be kidding!!

Look at a typical SLR from 30 years ago - like the Pentax Super Program in my signature.
Men like me used the two-hand grip - right hand holding the body and pressing the shutter, while the left hand held the lens and focused.
We had no trouble at all.
Many modern DSLR cameras and their lenses are too big and too heavy!
Their product design management should be fired for making cameras like the K-30 so large!
Pentax needs to get back to their svelte roots!!
(and if they want to sell an extra cost brick to make it acceptable to you, that is just fine with me)

And yes, I'm sufficiently adaptable that I've learned to use my Q-7, and even smaller cameras, gracefully.

Last edited by reh321; 08-21-2015 at 08:08 AM. Reason: add to thought
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