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09-16-2015, 06:21 PM   #301
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I disagree. I don't expect anything from Pentax to match the fastest AF bodies out there, but it can be substantially better. If it isn't, they don't get my money. There is lots of low hanging fruit to pick in this area for them.

I don't think I will be disappointed.

09-16-2015, 06:44 PM   #302
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
it can be substantially better
No one will argue about better AF being desirable for any new Pentax - across all the dimensions of AF performance (low-light performance, subject tracking, immunity to colour temperature variation, speed to lock, accuracy + consistent accuracy, etc). Good AF includes good AF ergonomics too - easy AF point selection controls, for example, which I hope Pentax can improve upon.

Even AF extras like face/eye detection/tracking, ability to limit the AF range to zones, easy manual AF over-ride, a wide range of AF lens micro-adjustment options, plus lots of easy to use but powerful AF performance menu settings in-camera fall into the definition of what 'good AF' means nowadays.
09-16-2015, 08:44 PM   #303
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
How often does that really happen? I mean really, let it go.

Who cares about the King of Autofocus? That isn't the goal, is it? It has the be THE BEST AF camera or it's nothing?

This is all typical Pentax reviewer/user behavior - trash it before we even know what it is.




I can't even AGREE with this guy.
Nobody has trashed anything.
I didn't say it had to be the King of AF.

Yes. It happens fairly often. I've had flower girls freeze and someone have to walk them down the isle and I have had then bolt for the closest person they recognize. I just shot a wedding where the bride and groom did the traditional run out of the church while people blew bubbles and it was too dark for my A7II or K-3 to lock/track focus.

I'm not here for your agreement.

---------- Post added 09-16-15 at 10:47 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
I disagree. I don't expect anything from Pentax to match the fastest AF bodies out there, but it can be substantially better. If it isn't, they don't get my money. There is lots of low hanging fruit to pick in this area for them.

I don't think I will be disappointed.
The D750 can be bought for under $1,300 - $2,000 and it has very fast AF. A marginal improvement isn't going to attract the users that Ricoh wants. If Kenspro is right and Ricoh is going after the professional, then they better have AF on par with the D750.
09-16-2015, 09:10 PM   #304
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The D750 can be bought for under $1,300 - $2,000 and it has very fast AF. A marginal improvement isn't going to attract the users that Ricoh wants. If Kenspro is right and Ricoh is going after the professional, then they better have AF on par with the D750.
So all the pros who never had and still don't have the AF capabilities of the D750 have not been able to do their job up to now?

09-16-2015, 09:35 PM - 1 Like   #305
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QuoteOriginally posted by bxf Quote
So all the pros who never had and still don't have the AF capabilities of the D750 have not been able to do their job up to now?
That's an argument that has never made sense to me. Why even get a DSLR and not a manual focus SLR?
Why ride cars to work and not horses?
People pay money to make their jobs easier and more convenient. It's called progress.
09-16-2015, 09:49 PM   #306
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QuoteOriginally posted by bxf Quote
So all the pros who never had and still don't have the AF capabilities of the D750 have not been able to do their job up to now?
Did I say anything to that effect? Really? Anything close to that?

Let's simplify things for people.

1. Ricoh wants to sell cameras.
2. Ricoh has to compete against other camera makers to sell these cameras.
3. Ricoh has to produce comparable products if it wants to compete and sell cameras.
4. Ricoh wants to go after the professional market - per Kenspro.
5. IF Ricoh wants to sell cameras to professionals then they need to release products that can compete in that market.

If Ricoh is going to produce a $2,000 camera then it better have features that are as good or better than other cameras at the $2,000 price point. Buyers are going to maximize their money and buy the best camera/system they can get for the money they have. If Ricoh releases a $1,000 FF body then they can afford to have lousy AF because there is very little competition at that price point. If Ricoh puts a $2,000 FF on the market that doesn't have AF that is competitive with other $2,000 cameras like the D750, then they are not going to sell very many cameras. Yes, the brand apologists will buy it in a year once prices have fallen by 60%, but it wont attract the new users that Ricoh needs in order to gain market share.

This has nothing to do with what a pro can or can't do with any given camera.
09-16-2015, 11:14 PM   #307
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By the time we will see the new full frame from Pentax, our neighbors will come out with new cameras with better specs. We can't compete with them, even if we want to. We only hope that Pentax full frame will be competitive, not the best camera on the market.

The only brand that will do some damage in Nikon/Canon sales is Sony. I mean, look at them. We are happy that we will have our first full frame, and in the mean time Sony has more full frames than lenses. And with their substantial firmware updates...they are stealing a lot of market share from Canon/Nikon.

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 09-17-2015 at 01:07 AM.
09-17-2015, 01:10 AM   #308
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Did I say anything to that effect? Really? Anything close to that?

Let's simplify things for people.

1. Ricoh wants to sell cameras.
2. Ricoh has to compete against other camera makers to sell these cameras.
3. Ricoh has to produce comparable products if it wants to compete and sell cameras.
4. Ricoh wants to go after the professional market - per Kenspro.
5. IF Ricoh wants to sell cameras to professionals then they need to release products that can compete in that market.

If Ricoh is going to produce a $2,000 camera then it better have features that are as good or better than other cameras at the $2,000 price point. Buyers are going to maximize their money and buy the best camera/system they can get for the money they have. If Ricoh releases a $1,000 FF body then they can afford to have lousy AF because there is very little competition at that price point. If Ricoh puts a $2,000 FF on the market that doesn't have AF that is competitive with other $2,000 cameras like the D750, then they are not going to sell very many cameras. Yes, the brand apologists will buy it in a year once prices have fallen by 60%, but it wont attract the new users that Ricoh needs in order to gain market share.

This has nothing to do with what a pro can or can't do with any given camera.
I think this is a good summing up why it is going to fail. The difference with 645Z is that in FF the competition is very harsh. If the camera is a dollar more expensive then D750 then there isn't much market.

One other problem is that Ricoh, I mean the Mother company, has zero interest in the camera division. They don't hire a photographer using a Pentax camera to promote their business. And they never ever will.........Because it doesn't say Ricoh on the camera, but Pentax. For them it's like every other camera.

09-17-2015, 01:17 AM   #309
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I think this is a good summing up why it is going to fail. The difference with 645Z is that in FF the competition is very harsh. If the camera is a dollar more expensive then D750 then there isn't much market.

One other problem is that Ricoh, I mean the Mother company, has zero interest in the camera division. They don't hire a photographer using a Pentax camera to promote their business. And they never ever will.........Because it doesn't say Ricoh on the camera, but Pentax. For them it's like every other camera.
So you are saying "Pentax is Doomed"?!
09-17-2015, 02:14 AM   #310
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Why ride cars to work and not horses?
You may need a car to get to work, but you don't need for it to be a Ferrari.

QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
People pay money to make their jobs easier and more convenient. It's called progress.
The point is that not every function demands "the best" of something. There are thousands of photographers producing beautiful work, and they neither have, nor need, the best gear. There are lots of products on the market that are not "the best" but are nevertheless successful.

A large part of success in business is marketing.

Last edited by bxf; 09-17-2015 at 04:18 AM. Reason: Addendum
09-17-2015, 02:30 AM   #311
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Boy, this thread has turned dark pretty quickly.

I would just say that Ricoh isn't dumb. They will release a camera that has the best auto focus they can muster along with every feature they can think to throw at it otherwise -- pixel shift/astro tracer/IBIS. The release price will probably be pretty expensive, but they won't hesitate to drop it pretty quickly if they need to in order to move units.

Their goal certainly will not be to sell as many cameras as Nikon or Canon -- they probably don't have manufacturing capacity for that. They will have a target at which they can turn a profit.

In the end, most of the bodies will be sold to hobby-ists, not to professionals and there will be plenty of people who try it and if the auto focus is good enough, may stick with it. I think it will be fine in the end, should review well (biggest negative in most review will be that the video isn't good enough and no 4K video) and create good buzz for Pentax.
09-17-2015, 03:15 AM   #312
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I've never touched the video button on K-3 II, and with my previous model (k-5 II) I took about a 10 minute video. So, I'm not interested in any way about video capabilities on the new full frame.

I just want a competitive full frame to upgrade from my K-3 II (and a few new lenses). I can't upgrade over and over again to a body with APS-C sensor. If the full frame will be competitive, my K-3 II it will probably stick with me another few years, but at least I will be able to change bodies when scenario requires...
09-17-2015, 03:23 AM   #313
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
3. Ricoh has to produce comparable products if it wants to compete and sell cameras.
This is where your argument falls apart. Ricoh specifically WON'T offer comparable cameras. Why bother? We already have comparable cameras.

Pentax is an alternative - difference mix of features. If a buyer wants / needs a CaNikon, by all means go ahead and just get one.
09-17-2015, 03:35 AM - 2 Likes   #314
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I think this is a good summing up why it is going to fail.
Well, they gave it a good run. Often products need to be released (or announced) before they fail, but it's nice that we don't have to go through all that nonsense.

Dooooooomed...
09-17-2015, 03:37 AM   #315
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
I've never touched the video button on K-3 II, and with my previous model (k-5 II) I took about a 10 minute video. So, I'm not interested in any way about video capabilities on the new full frame.

I just want a competitive full frame to upgrade from my K-3 II (and a few new lenses). I can't upgrade over and over again to a body with APS-C sensor. If the full frame will be competitive, my K-3 II it will probably stick with me another few years, but at least I will be able to change bodies when scenario requires...
No offence meant, Dan Rentea, but I don't understand why it needs to be competitive and to whom or what it needs to be so? To yourself, professionals or reviewers? Just curious...
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