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09-17-2015, 07:54 AM - 1 Like   #331
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Not according to Kenspo.
But Kenspro has been captured to avoid any leak, he'll be released in 18 days.

09-17-2015, 08:00 AM   #332
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If they aim at the d750 marke,t price and performance wise, they will sell very well I believe. I know a lot of pro photographers (not landscape) that prefer the 750 over the 810 for focus performance and lesser pixel management. If they combine pixel shift into a similar setup as the 750 it will surely be a great beast with a huge market for pro's. Pro landscapers can deal with 24 ish MP and get the higher resolution from the pixel shift (a huge bonus when uploading into your computer), while wedding photographers etc can get more than satisfactory results with a 24ish mp FF.
09-17-2015, 08:11 AM - 1 Like   #333
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well not if they come with a good camera priced below D750. There is a market for such a camera. Lots of hobbyist that use Pentax or people who have gone to other brands but still have some older k-mount lenses from film days at home doing nothing.


Pixel shift is a gimmick to me. The astro traceren is for a very small market segment. Yes you sell some camera's, but not many for this specificaties type of photography. IBIS is also in Sony 7 series, so it has to be really good. Maybe they can license the IBIS from Sony, that would lots cheaper then designing it themselves.


The oddballs of Pentax like K-01 and K-S1 weren't to succesfilm in the market, even if they are great camera's. People do like some old fashion style.


They presented in februari a brick looking like a normal style dslr. Wich it probably is going to be. The difference is going to be in wich sensor, wich processor and at what price, but lots of it would be like a buffed up K-3.


Ricoh purchases Pentax at a time that the market for camera's and dslr's was still good. Since 2011 that market has collapsed. Ricoh is a global company with over 200 different working company's. One of them is the little camera division. The camera division is the only business that is a consumer orientaded business while all others are b2b. Local Ricoh business has nothing to do with the camera branche. And also doesn't do anything with them. So if some Ricoh business hire a photographer to do a Job, it is someone working in their area and the chance of that being someone with a Pentax is minimal. And not needed, as long as the images are good for the purpose needed, who cares if it's a Nikon or Canon used.


Yes Pentax makes great camera's, but your list does make a big difference for lots of people, or for reviews online.
The point is to get buzz and to get your name at the top of camera news sites and hopefully to get good reviews.

Every camera out there right now is better than what 95 percent of photographers need (a made up statistic, but still...) People buy based on want, not on need and the goal is to build a camera that has enough "features" that it stands out from the other in the category. It remains to be seen if Pentax can do it, but I am a lot more hopeful than the other folks here.

Last edited by Rondec; 09-17-2015 at 11:56 AM.
09-17-2015, 08:43 AM - 1 Like   #334
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QuoteOriginally posted by bxf Quote
You may need a car to get to work, but you don't need for it to be a Ferrari.


The point is that not every function demands "the best" of something. There are thousands of photographers producing beautiful work, and they neither have, nor need, the best gear. There are lots of products on the market that are not "the best" but are nevertheless successful.

A large part of success in business is marketing.
If people pay the same money as a Ferrari, they don't want it to perform like a Camry. They want it to perform like a Ferrari.
Because Pentax waited so long to get into the Full Frame world, there is a competitor at pretty much every price point. And, like it or not, they will be compared to products at that price point.
If I have $2,000-$2500USD in my wallet and am in the camera market, I am going to do a comparison between the D750, the 5DMkIII, the Df, and maybe even a refurbished D810. (And there will probably be more Canikon releases with better specs than these cameras in the next couple months)
If Pentax can't match the features of those cameras, then the only folks that will consider it are the die hard Pentaxians.

Sorry, but the reality is that when you release a product into a well established marketplace, it is in competition with those other products.

And that is a reason why high end mirrorless often struggles. Folks are wondering "why should I spend $1200 on a mirrorless when a $600 DSLR has better autofocus and has a better lens selection?"

09-17-2015, 08:51 AM   #335
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All right.
EgoÔstically, the most important imho is that Pentax issues ANY K-AF full frame.
Let's buy tens of them, if the first is gonna be the last one
09-17-2015, 09:03 AM   #336
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I know one thing and that is for sure, if I were to change to say Nikon FF, with all this hype going on it'd almost be like making love to my wife with someone else's p$&@s. It just wouldn't feel right. Let's hang on and wait pentaxians. I have held on and waited all this time and have been tempted to change brand but I am sure that the end result for us in the coming months will be a true winner

Last edited by Mattox; 09-17-2015 at 09:17 AM.
09-17-2015, 10:48 AM   #337
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
One other problem is that Ricoh, I mean the Mother company, has zero interest in the camera division. They don't hire a photographer using a Pentax camera to promote their business. And they never ever will.........Because it doesn't say Ricoh on the camera, but Pentax. For them it's like every other camera.
Wow. And it was stated with such confidence...
So:
- Why did they buy Pentax? If not to expand the camera business. Any other reason you could think of? Nope, you can't just assume they changed their mind in the meanwhile. It would be convenient, but such corporations don't act on whims.
- Why are they claiming to be interested in the consumer camera business? Are they lying?
- Why are they launching an entire FF product line? A serious investment, one which Hoya avoided, just to fool us into thinking they're interested when they're not? Then perhaps Hoya didn't do it because they were interested but wanted to fool us they aren't?

By the way, they tried writing Ricoh on a Pentax... and they also have Ricoh cameras, the GR for example.
As for "hiring" photographers... are you sure, I mean really sure about this?
09-17-2015, 11:34 AM   #338
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Getting that has little (nothing) to do with the product. It requires Richo offering a different type of Dealer Agreement, direct Dealer financing and dealer sales incentives. If you want Ricoh to do all that expect to see more expensive Pentax cameras with fewer features.

Can't have it all.
QuoteOriginally posted by DennisH Quote
What they really need is shelf space in stores like Best Buy, and salespeople willing to show the product. That's what the majority of non-forum member buyers see. I can't imagine all the 5D, D610, etc., shooters I see in NYC have them because of the guys at Yankee Stadium have them. It's because the woman at the store said it was the best.


09-17-2015, 11:38 AM - 1 Like   #339
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
- Why are they claiming to be interested in the consumer camera business? Are they lying?
Ricoh purchased Pentax camera business unit and merged it with Ricoh camera business unit, decided on a product road map and reorganized accordingly, that's the most common scenario in the industry and I've been through several fusions of this kind. Usually, when the two businesses are doing well and complementary the goal is to access more market segments and synergize, or when each of the two merged businesses are not doing well, the purpose of the merge is to keep the same customers and steamline R&D and corporate resource, thus achieving some level of cost reduction (=reduce redundant headcount, for instance close redundant offices, and layoff some of the sales and management personnel). The merge of Ricoh imaging and Pentax imaging falls into the second case (no increase of resources), that's why as soon as full frame works started, pretty much nothing new was release from the DSLR camera unit (I bet Ricoh did not double engineering teams to work on both compact cameras, APSC DSLR and FF DSLR).

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
- Why are they launching an entire FF product line? A serious investment, one which Hoya avoided, just to fool us into thinking they're interested when they're not? Then perhaps Hoya didn't do it because they were interested but wanted to fool us they aren't?
Hoya avoided to release a FF product line because of the state of the art of technology, the readyness of the market at that time and business plan simulations at the time. Basically, before a company decides to invest into new projects, a sales forecast is made based on market data, NRE and unit costs are used in the discounted cash flow model; multiple projects are in competition regarding the net present value of discounted cash flows, internal rate of return, and an arbitration is made to decide what projects are kept and what projects are discarded. APSC improved to reach a point of lower improvement of image quality, so that the revenues from APSC came to a saturation point, that's at that time that Ricoh had no other choice but to introduce a FF camera to stimulate sales again.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
By the way, they tried writing Ricoh on a Pentax... and they also have Ricoh cameras, the GR for example. As for "hiring" photographers... are you sure, I mean really sure about this?
Ricoh is effectively a conglomerate of 229 subsidiaries (source: Ricoh corporate data), and the case that Ricoh might hire a Canon or Nikon camera for their marcom department is very possible. Generally, conglomerates manage a portfolio of activities, more or less related, in order to achieve some economies of scale and a suitable financial profile for their investors (i.e stock price volatility and overall net return on equity). The goal of Ricoh corporate finance is to decide on keeping, selling or purchasing some of their subsidiaries in order to achieve specific goals for the valuation of the conglomerate. So, except if the CFO or the group is passionate of Pentax cameras, there not reason why he would select Pentax for his marcom departement, the goal of the CFO is to reach his target, I'm not sure he would care much about the brand of camera to reach his goal. Buy the way, a CFO of Ricoh may even have a Phase One, since money should not be an issue for him, why would he for example buy a K-30 or a K-50 honestly ?

Last edited by biz-engineer; 09-17-2015 at 11:45 AM.
09-17-2015, 12:33 PM   #340
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Ricoh is effectively a conglomerate of 229 subsidiaries (source: Ricoh corporate data), and the case that Ricoh might hire a Canon or Nikon camera for their marcom department is very possible. Generally, conglomerates manage a portfolio of activities, more or less related, in order to achieve some economies of scale and a suitable financial profile for their investors (i.e stock price volatility and overall net return on equity). The goal of Ricoh corporate finance is to decide on keeping, selling or purchasing some of their subsidiaries in order to achieve specific goals for the valuation of the conglomerate. So, except if the CFO or the group is passionate of Pentax cameras, there not reason why he would select Pentax for his marcom departement, the goal of the CFO is to reach his target, I'm not sure he would care much about the brand of camera to reach his goal. Buy the way, a CFO of Ricoh may even have a Phase One, since money should not be an issue for him, why would he for example buy a K-30 or a K-50 honestly ?
This would only change if the Pentax name would disapear and the Ricoh name will be on all camera's. Only then it is very simple to state that all 229 subsidiaries would use Ricoh camera's exclusively. Wich would be for some photo agency's a sign to buy into the Ricoh camera system (k-mount or 645) to use for their cliŽnt.
09-17-2015, 12:59 PM   #341
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I am not so sure all japan executives would be so "fanboy", as i get what you mean...
At least not like Sony's
09-17-2015, 02:14 PM   #342
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
So, except if the CFO or the group is passionate of Pentax cameras, there not reason why he would select Pentax for his marcom departement
Hmmm. I doubt that you will find a single Nikon camera anywhere near Canon HQ, except their R&D dept. And vice versa. Or a single Canon photocopier in Ricoh HQ. There is such a thing as corporate pride and tribalism (plus procurement instructions from HQ).

But lots of marcom depts do use stuff like Phase One gear for product shots and marketing material, but they are perhaps specialised tool providers, and often the services are externally provided anyhow.
09-17-2015, 02:24 PM - 1 Like   #343
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Nothing can be more important on this upcoming FF camera than AF performance and reliability. High ISO noise, DR, color depth, buffer size, etc. mean nothing if a shot is not in focus. Certainly Nikon and Canon have put all of this development into AF performance (tracking, 3D) for this reason coupled with the input of the people who they try to sell their high end cameras to.
09-17-2015, 02:35 PM   #344
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biz-engineer, thank you for the detailed response.
However, I'll try a simpler explanation - though, with no inside info, I can't be sure it's accurate. But I think it's plausible.

First, it seems obvious to me that Ricoh bought Pentax because they could not develop their own camera division into a significant player. This addresses the caring part ; the rest are details.
I remember claims that Ricoh was hiring engineers to replace the ones fired by Hoya. And not long ago Ricoh invested into increasing camera production capacity.
OTOH, most problems can't be solved just by throwing money at them. In software development for example, it's a known fact that adding people to a late project will only make it latter. Ricoh have to find the proper people, train them, integrate them into the team (and integrate Pentax and Ricoh people as well); all whole normal operations would continue. And it takes 3+ years to develop a new camera. It might not be as fast as we'd like to, but they are moving forward.

As for Hoya, my simpler explanation is that they wanted to sell Pentax Imaging Systems, instead of developing into a serious competitor . Since they bought Pentax it was all cost cutting; the effect was visible in the fewer and fewer lenses being launched (the 645D can be easily explained as a guaranteed success with not so much effort ).
09-17-2015, 03:17 PM   #345
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