Sony news from Korea

reh321 · 08-29-2015, 01:20 PM

Although it doesn't actually say so, I've been told that this article is about Sony's plans in South Korea only.
Sony aims to beat Canon, Nikon in full-frame camera market
Nonetheless, I wonder how these plans, this thinking, would affect Sony's relationships with Pentax and Nikon.

RonHendriks1966 · 08-29-2015, 01:24 PM

Nikon has also other sources for sensors and maybe Pentax is just to small to worry about.

CDW · 08-29-2015, 04:55 PM

Who else manufactures full frame CMOS sensors with the performance capabilities of the SONY line up? Canon obviously makes their own. I'm not aware of any full frame sensors from Toshiba or Samsung.

rawr · 08-29-2015, 05:22 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by CDW

Who else manufactures full frame CMOS sensors with the performance capabilities of the SONY line up?

Aptina? Renesas Semiconductor? both may have been used by Nikon.

Winder · 08-29-2015, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by CDW

Who else manufactures full frame CMOS sensors with the performance capabilities of the SONY line up? Canon obviously makes their own. I'm not aware of any full frame sensors from Toshiba or Samsung.

Samsung has made sensors as large as 36mm x 36mm for prototypes. Renesas makes the FF sensor for the D700, D3, D3s, D4, & D4s.

Its not a big deal to make a FF sensor these days. That is why the price has fallen significantly over the past few years.

Zygonyx · 08-29-2015, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by CDW

Who else manufactures full frame CMOS sensors with the performance capabilities of the SONY line up? Canon obviously makes their own. I'm not aware of any full frame sensors from Toshiba or Samsung.

Leica is at this time using new performing FF sensors made by an undisclosed company, after some partnership with ST microelectronics. This new contractor is said to be "Leica exclusive".
Leica is having great ambitions too in the wake of the recent and excellent Q : an all new FF autofocussed EVIL product line is to be launched very soon... That should help them leaving their former "niche player" status.
Btw, i see this initiative as a serious comming concurrence for FF DSLR makers... even more than Sony's ambitions.

**RGlasel** · 08-29-2015, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by reh321

would affect Sony's relationships with Pentax and Nikon

No where in the linked article does anyone from Sony say they are keeping their sensor technology to themselves. Earlier this year, Sony released a global strategy for the future which pegged sensor manufacturing as a high growth industry that will receive significant capital investment and relegated finished cameras to the cash cow category with a focus on increasing margins without major capital investment. Withholding FF sensors from other manufacturers of finished cameras is completely at odds with Sony's stated strategy. Owners of current Sony cameras should be asking themselves if their chosen brand of camera will be competitive with cameras from other manufacturers in five years.

reh321 · 08-29-2015, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by CDW

Who else manufactures full frame CMOS sensors with the performance capabilities of the SONY line up? Canon obviously makes their own. I'm not aware of any full frame sensors from Toshiba or Samsung.

I'm thinking in terms of the dilemma faced by the Sony electronics division, which is similar to the dilemma faced by OPEC. OPEC wants to keep prices low enough to put US/Canadian producers back on the sidelines, but members like Venezuela need prices higher than that to meet their domestic income needs. Likewise, Sony Electronics wants to help Sony Camera meet some rather lofty goals without losing the income from external customers, competitors who could keep Sony Camera from reaching those lofty goals, because that external income is currently needed to help the corporation regain their financial footing.

---------- Post added 08-29-15 at 11:36 PM ----------

Originally posted by RGlasel

No where in the linked article does anyone from Sony say they are keeping their sensor technology to themselves. Earlier this year, Sony released a global strategy for the future which pegged sensor manufacturing as a high growth industry that will receive significant capital investment and relegated finished cameras to the cash cow category with a focus on increasing margins without major capital investment. Withholding FF sensors from other manufacturers of finished cameras is completely at odds with Sony's stated strategy.

That is one half of their dilemma - keeping income rolling in from Nikon and Pentax.

Originally posted by RGlasel

Owners of current Sony cameras should be asking themselves if their chosen brand of camera will be competitive with cameras from other manufacturers in five years.

That is the other half of their dilemma. Their goals in this area are more lofty than some of us had realized - according to this article, they want to be more than competitive in the upcoming years.

ogl · 08-29-2015, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

Leica is at this time using new performing FF sensors made by an undisclosed company, after some partnership with ST microelectronics. This new contractor is said to be "Leica exclusive".
Leica is having great ambitions too in the wake of the recent and excellent Q : an all new FF autofocussed EVIL product line is to be launched very soon... That should help them leaving their former "niche player" status.
Btw, i see this initiative as a serious comming concurrence for FF DSLR makers... even more than Sony's ambitions.

Undisclosed, but I think it's the same manufacturer as made M240's sensor - CMOSIS. If they produce 24*36 mm sensor, no any problem to produce 30*45 mm.

Mistral75 · 08-30-2015, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by ogl

Undisclosed, but I think it's the same manufacturer as made M240's sensor - CMOSIS. If they produce 24*36 mm sensor, no any problem to produce 30*45 mm.

CMOSIS are a fabless company. They designed the Leica M's (Type 240) sensor and STMicroelectronics manufacture it.

thibs · 08-30-2015, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by Winder

Samsung has made sensors as large as 36mm x 36mm for prototypes. Renesas makes the FF sensor for the D700, D3, D3s, D4, & D4s.

Its not a big deal to make a FF sensor these days. That is why the price has fallen significantly over the past few years.

Renesas manufactures them. They are, officially at least Nikon designs AFAICT (though I have some doubts about Nikon PR on this).

Zygonyx · 08-30-2015, 01:28 AM

Another interpretation of this Sony Korea interview, is that Sony "kiks Samsung's .ss" - not even speaking of them whilst there is no Samsung FF - where the korean giant announced they would become "The major player" in photog industry about 5 years ago. And they failled.

Simen1 · 08-30-2015, 02:48 AM

Originally posted by CDW

Who else manufactures full frame CMOS sensors with the performance capabilities of the SONY line up? Canon obviously makes their own. I'm not aware of any full frame sensors from Toshiba or Samsung.

If Sony drives up the price or down the supply of FF sensors, I'm sure both Toshiba and Samsung are more then happy to make and sell FF sensors to Pentax and Nikon. The reason they don't do that at the moment is that Sony have good performance at prices they cant compete with. Toshiba and Samsung both have the technology to make good FF sensors and it would probably take less then a year to scale up one of their other sensors to FF and ramp up production.

asw66 · 08-30-2015, 03:21 AM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

Another interpretation of this Sony Korea interview, is that Sony "kiks Samsung's .ss" - not even speaking of them whilst there is no Samsung FF - where the korean giant announced they would become "The major player" in photog industry about 5 years ago. And they failled.

I reckon this is on the money. I'm sure that Sony doesn't give a damn if Pentax produces bodies that are bit nicer than theirs six months after they've released a sensor. Samsung, on the other hand, is a genuine rival from their point of view.

Zygonyx · 08-30-2015, 03:42 AM

Originally posted by Simen1

If Sony drives up the price or down the supply of FF sensors, I'm sure both Toshiba and Samsung are more then happy to make and sell FF sensors to Pentax and Nikon. The reason they don't do that at the moment is that Sony have good performance at prices they cant compete with. Toshiba and Samsung both have the technology to make good FF sensors and it would probably take less then a year to scale up one of their other sensors to FF and ramp up production.

It is now more than 10 years that Canon tries but fails catching up with Sony - see DxO measurements. So i am not so optimistic as you here.

08-29-2015, 01:20 PM	#1
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,175	Sony news from Korea Although it doesn't actually say so, I've been told that this article is about Sony's plans in South Korea only. Sony aims to beat Canon, Nikon in full-frame camera market Nonetheless, I wonder how these plans, this thinking, would affect Sony's relationships with Pentax and Nikon.

08-29-2015, 07:20 PM	#6
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,032	Originally posted by CDW Who else manufactures full frame CMOS sensors with the performance capabilities of the SONY line up? Canon obviously makes their own. I'm not aware of any full frame sensors from Toshiba or Samsung. Leica is at this time using new performing FF sensors made by an undisclosed company, after some partnership with ST microelectronics. This new contractor is said to be "Leica exclusive". Leica is having great ambitions too in the wake of the recent and excellent Q : an all new FF autofocussed EVIL product line is to be launched very soon... That should help them leaving their former "niche player" status. Btw, i see this initiative as a serious comming concurrence for FF DSLR makers... even more than Sony's ambitions. Last edited by Zygonyx; 08-29-2015 at 07:49 PM.

08-30-2015, 01:28 AM	#12
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,032	Another interpretation of this Sony Korea interview, is that Sony "kiks Samsung's .ss" - not even speaking of them whilst there is no Samsung FF - where the korean giant announced they would become "The major player" in photog industry about 5 years ago. And they failled. Last edited by Zygonyx; 08-30-2015 at 01:46 AM.

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08-29-2015, 01:24 PM	#2
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Nikon has also other sources for sensors and maybe Pentax is just to small to worry about.

08-29-2015, 04:55 PM	#3
CDW Site Supporter Join Date: May 2011 Location: Big Island, Hawaii & Utah Posts: 457	Who else manufactures full frame CMOS sensors with the performance capabilities of the SONY line up? Canon obviously makes their own. I'm not aware of any full frame sensors from Toshiba or Samsung.

08-29-2015, 05:22 PM - 1 Like	#4
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by CDW Who else manufactures full frame CMOS sensors with the performance capabilities of the SONY line up? Aptina? Renesas Semiconductor? both may have been used by Nikon.

08-29-2015, 05:56 PM	#5
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by CDW Who else manufactures full frame CMOS sensors with the performance capabilities of the SONY line up? Canon obviously makes their own. I'm not aware of any full frame sensors from Toshiba or Samsung. Samsung has made sensors as large as 36mm x 36mm for prototypes. Renesas makes the FF sensor for the D700, D3, D3s, D4, & D4s. Its not a big deal to make a FF sensor these days. That is why the price has fallen significantly over the past few years.

08-29-2015, 08:28 PM	#7
RGlasel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saskatoon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,227	Originally posted by reh321 would affect Sony's relationships with Pentax and Nikon No where in the linked article does anyone from Sony say they are keeping their sensor technology to themselves. Earlier this year, Sony released a global strategy for the future which pegged sensor manufacturing as a high growth industry that will receive significant capital investment and relegated finished cameras to the cash cow category with a focus on increasing margins without major capital investment. Withholding FF sensors from other manufacturers of finished cameras is completely at odds with Sony's stated strategy. Owners of current Sony cameras should be asking themselves if their chosen brand of camera will be competitive with cameras from other manufacturers in five years.

08-29-2015, 08:31 PM	#8
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,175 Original Poster	Originally posted by CDW Who else manufactures full frame CMOS sensors with the performance capabilities of the SONY line up? Canon obviously makes their own. I'm not aware of any full frame sensors from Toshiba or Samsung. I'm thinking in terms of the dilemma faced by the Sony electronics division, which is similar to the dilemma faced by OPEC. OPEC wants to keep prices low enough to put US/Canadian producers back on the sidelines, but members like Venezuela need prices higher than that to meet their domestic income needs. Likewise, Sony Electronics wants to help Sony Camera meet some rather lofty goals without losing the income from external customers, competitors who could keep Sony Camera from reaching those lofty goals, because that external income is currently needed to help the corporation regain their financial footing. ---------- Post added 08-29-15 at 11:36 PM ---------- Originally posted by RGlasel No where in the linked article does anyone from Sony say they are keeping their sensor technology to themselves. Earlier this year, Sony released a global strategy for the future which pegged sensor manufacturing as a high growth industry that will receive significant capital investment and relegated finished cameras to the cash cow category with a focus on increasing margins without major capital investment. Withholding FF sensors from other manufacturers of finished cameras is completely at odds with Sony's stated strategy. That is one half of their dilemma - keeping income rolling in from Nikon and Pentax. Originally posted by RGlasel Owners of current Sony cameras should be asking themselves if their chosen brand of camera will be competitive with cameras from other manufacturers in five years. That is the other half of their dilemma. Their goals in this area are more lofty than some of us had realized - according to this article, they want to be more than competitive in the upcoming years.

08-29-2015, 11:12 PM	#9
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by Zygonyx Leica is at this time using new performing FF sensors made by an undisclosed company, after some partnership with ST microelectronics. This new contractor is said to be "Leica exclusive". Leica is having great ambitions too in the wake of the recent and excellent Q : an all new FF autofocussed EVIL product line is to be launched very soon... That should help them leaving their former "niche player" status. Btw, i see this initiative as a serious comming concurrence for FF DSLR makers... even more than Sony's ambitions. Undisclosed, but I think it's the same manufacturer as made M240's sensor - CMOSIS. If they produce 2436 mm sensor, no any problem to produce 3045 mm.

08-30-2015, 12:39 AM	#10
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,526	Originally posted by ogl Undisclosed, but I think it's the same manufacturer as made M240's sensor - CMOSIS. If they produce 2436 mm sensor, no any problem to produce 3045 mm. CMOSIS are a fabless company. They designed the Leica M's (Type 240) sensor and STMicroelectronics manufacture it.

08-30-2015, 01:22 AM	#11
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Winder Samsung has made sensors as large as 36mm x 36mm for prototypes. Renesas makes the FF sensor for the D700, D3, D3s, D4, & D4s. Its not a big deal to make a FF sensor these days. That is why the price has fallen significantly over the past few years. Renesas manufactures them. They are, officially at least Nikon designs AFAICT (though I have some doubts about Nikon PR on this).

08-30-2015, 02:48 AM	#13
Simen1 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Tromsø, Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 1,031	Originally posted by CDW Who else manufactures full frame CMOS sensors with the performance capabilities of the SONY line up? Canon obviously makes their own. I'm not aware of any full frame sensors from Toshiba or Samsung. If Sony drives up the price or down the supply of FF sensors, I'm sure both Toshiba and Samsung are more then happy to make and sell FF sensors to Pentax and Nikon. The reason they don't do that at the moment is that Sony have good performance at prices they cant compete with. Toshiba and Samsung both have the technology to make good FF sensors and it would probably take less then a year to scale up one of their other sensors to FF and ramp up production.

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08-30-2015, 03:21 AM	#14
asw66 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 347	Originally posted by Zygonyx Another interpretation of this Sony Korea interview, is that Sony "kiks Samsung's .ss" - not even speaking of them whilst there is no Samsung FF - where the korean giant announced they would become "The major player" in photog industry about 5 years ago. And they failled. I reckon this is on the money. I'm sure that Sony doesn't give a damn if Pentax produces bodies that are bit nicer than theirs six months after they've released a sensor. Samsung, on the other hand, is a genuine rival from their point of view.

08-30-2015, 03:42 AM	#15
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,032	Originally posted by Simen1 If Sony drives up the price or down the supply of FF sensors, I'm sure both Toshiba and Samsung are more then happy to make and sell FF sensors to Pentax and Nikon. The reason they don't do that at the moment is that Sony have good performance at prices they cant compete with. Toshiba and Samsung both have the technology to make good FF sensors and it would probably take less then a year to scale up one of their other sensors to FF and ramp up production. It is now more than 10 years that Canon tries but fails catching up with Sony - see DxO measurements. So i am not so optimistic as you here.