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06-20-2008, 07:16 AM   #16
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I guess my thing is is that all three of the proposed merger camera companies make fine products. Pentax makes great lenses and is on the way back to making great bodies. Oly makes perfectly good bodies and lenses that please their users. So does Sigma (hell, I have 2 Sigma lenses including the Bigma).

Why propose an obviously untenable merger that MIGHT have long range benefits when the merged company would not survive long enough to realize the potential?

oh... and it would probably be Sony holdin the bag and poking at it... LOL Canon and Nikon would just stand back and watch...

p.s. competition breeds innovation. Be careful wishing for PenOlyS. Eventually we could end upwith CaNiPenSonLeiFujOlySam's... One camera fits all!


Last edited by MRRiley; 06-20-2008 at 07:46 AM.
06-20-2008, 10:09 AM   #17
RaduA
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
I guess my thing is is that all three of the proposed merger camera companies make fine products. Pentax makes great lenses and is on the way back to making great bodies. Oly makes perfectly good bodies and lenses that please their users. So does Sigma (hell, I have 2 Sigma lenses including the Bigma).

Why propose an obviously untenable merger that MIGHT have long range benefits when the merged company would not survive long enough to realize the potential?

oh... and it would probably be Sony holdin the bag and poking at it... LOL Canon and Nikon would just stand back and watch...

p.s. competition breeds innovation. Be careful wishing for PenOlyS. Eventually we could end upwith CaNiPenSonLeiFujOlySam's... One camera fits all!
MRRiley,

You severely misunderstood me. And some of your statements are actually in favor of my arguments. First of all it's not like making a monoply but to create a third big player on the market (Sony doesn't count that much). Canon and Nikon will never merge because they product lines are from the top down more or less a match. Plus they have like a zillion lenses from 10 to 1200 mm or something like that. THERE IS NO NEED FOR THEM TO COLABORATE. This 3 companies on the other hand are very much complementary.

Now point to point:
- mount system - I don't say give up 4/3 totaly but make it available for low end and "special" cameras - lighter, more compact this mount in the future. We pentaxians must now better what means DA lens - no chance to use it for FF. So forth an Oly lens is ONLY for a 4/3 line of cameras. For APS-C and FF standardise on K mount;
- you and lithos argued against this based on management and tech level contradictions. Now pls tell me who do you think Pentax prefers as boss (or partners for that matter) some other japanese guys or Samsung? Same for Oly (especially if Matsushita bails out), same for Sigma - not Samsung but maybe another foreigners.
- as you said it's a fact that those 3 companies are capable to make extraordinary cameras joining their strenghts. But it's also a fact that neither one can make a trully extraordinary camera alone;
- yes competition is great yet when resorces are very scarse the execution is longer and based on compromises. Take Sigma and their cameras. Great ideas gone (sometimes) terribly bad. I say using a "parts bank" with the best from everyone and make a standard ASIC a great camera could be born much sooner than if tehy are alone;
- Sigma has longer lenses (you have one of them), Pentax has better primes, Oly has the 4/3 range pretty well covered. And in fact I never thought Canon is hurt by having various lenses in different FL (like 4 50 mm e.g.)
- All the cameras can standardise of same AF systems. Image processors can also be used in canon's digic way from the ground up;
- Aquisitions can be made in larger (much larger) volumes and many parts could be standard for future cameras, distribution contracts streamlined the same way. Marketing could get much more money and brand awareness enhanced.
- finally you said "when the merged company would not survive long enough to realize the potential?". I fail to realise what do you meant by that IMO it's obvious that even this merger would happen this evening all common plans will began to be executed after the future gen of cameras are launched by every manufacturer. Short time benefits could be a better negociating power and cutting some costs.

Finally I don't think it's all about a merger but maybe an alliance and close cooperation. Think of it as automotive companies making engines together and even making the same cars with other logos on them in the same factory.
And think the competition in few years with C @ up to 35%, N @ up to 35% and PenOlyS @20 - 25%. I fell generous today so I give the 5% to Sony

I never say this will ever happen but I WISH it does.

Just my 2 c,
Radu
06-20-2008, 11:10 AM   #18
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In fact, I don't see any point in Sigma joining the forces.

Why not make it like this?
In heaven, Pentax brands the camera's, Oly the lenses and Fuji provides the sensors. That would be my ideal system actually... But I'll do with a Pentax or Oly body and a Fuji Super CCD (if it's an Oly body, I don't make a point of jumping ship - although I will have to look for another forum then )
06-20-2008, 12:04 PM   #19
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this is a circular debate and I resign...

06-20-2008, 12:40 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxke Quote
In fact, I don't see any point in Sigma joining the forces.

Why not make it like this?
In heaven, Pentax brands the camera's, Oly the lenses and Fuji provides the sensors. That would be my ideal system actually... But I'll do with a Pentax or Oly body and a Fuji Super CCD (if it's an Oly body, I don't make a point of jumping ship - although I will have to look for another forum then )
Sigma has long zoom lenses, macro primes longer than 100mm, FOVEON sensor and DP1 cameras. At least Pentax has none of this.

Radu
06-20-2008, 12:42 PM   #21
RaduA
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
this is a circular debate and I resign...
So am I!
06-20-2008, 01:03 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
p.s. competition breeds innovation. Be careful wishing for PenOlyS. Eventually we could end upwith CaNiPenSonLeiFujOlySam's... One camera fits all!
Agreed.

When you have a monopoly you end up with products like:

06-20-2008, 01:22 PM   #23
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Of course, I hope the original poster realises what PenOlyS will inevitably be acronymised into...

06-22-2008, 08:58 AM   #24
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Radua,
I get the point. I also would like to see a fixed lens pocket camera using the 4/3's sensor. The zoom if included, would be limited in range, but the gain in image quality would be well worth the compromise. I have always wanted a digital camera thats quality equaled my old Olympus AX 35mm FF pocket camera. I carried it all over the world in the pocker of my flight suit, years ago. It enabled me to get shots that I would have missed otherwise.

Dave


QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
Hi, Dave
English is not my native language and I think it shows! I don't say at all that those 3 need to standardise at all on 4/3 sensor. But this sensor and the lenses that exists can be usefull on the lower end with small, light cameras in form of digicams and DSLRs. Higher end will use APS-C sensors and K mount. And the very high end would be FF.
Am I making more sense now?

Radu
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