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11-27-2015, 12:27 AM   #91
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The next big thing will be a Hybrid Film/Digital DSLR no video or flash, but hey you can preview/replay the film images on screen

11-27-2015, 12:41 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Cry me a river...buuhuuu! So much complaining and whining on here.
Kenspo have you tried the "new" version of the 70-200/2.8? I remember that you were excited even with the previous pre-production model... The new improved? one should be awesome, although I don't know which aspects of the lens had to be improved or redesigned...

Maybe they have downgraded it a bit because humanity is not ready yet for so much picture quality from the K-1 + HD DFA* 70-200!!!
11-27-2015, 12:15 PM - 1 Like   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Cry me a river...buuhuuu! So much complaining and whining on here.
Not so much crying and whining, as boredom. Ricoh should be doing a better job of dribbling out info to keep the rumor mill going. If they did, then each little tidbit would ignite as a even more speculative rumors. But without anything official or semi-official from RIcoh the group here is reduced to speculation or inventive paranoia.

Really the worst whiners are long gone from here, Kenspo. You should have seen this place 2 - 3 years ago. Today's complainers are absolutely positive forward thinkers compared to what used to be complaints here.

---------- Post added 11-27-15 at 11:17 AM ----------

And I'm not referring to you Kenspo regarding dribbling out info, you are doing what you can within the limits set. I mean Ricoh officially should be doing a better job. They started that 'teaser' site and then nothing. Almost like they actually had a plan and then something went wrong. Instead of adapting and changing the plan, everything has stopped. Not the way to run a retail market driven business.
11-27-2015, 01:13 PM   #94
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IMO information stands against speculative rumors, more often than not. Facts are boring, real products (which someone have to be able to make it work) - while speculation, and imaginary products which don't have to be feasible are interesting.

11-27-2015, 02:14 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
They started that 'teaser' site and then nothing. Almost like they actually had a plan and then something went wrong.
That certainly how it looks. I think asahi man did suggest once (around the time the teaser site went up) that Ricoh had basically told everyone in the company doing the full-frame project (staff training was mentioned) to go and do something else for a while until CP+ gets closer.

Leaving the teaser site out there like a ghost ship is not effective marketing.
11-27-2015, 02:26 PM - 1 Like   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Leaving the teaser site out there like a ghost ship is not effective marketing.
Kinda the opposite of effective, actually. I suppose Ricoh being mainly a business to business company is lacking in retail marketing experience, at least at the policy making level. But even so, this sort of thing is embarrassing. It does seem as if they had a plan for the release of the K-1, with the teaser site, a glimpse of the camera at tradeshows and so on. Asahiman also noted that training and other things were all canceled. And canceled so quickly that not everyone got the word, so that parts of the plan went ahead, like the glimpse at the trade show where it was pulled.

Stuff happens, and things go wrong. You have to pick up the pieces and move on by adapting. They have the teaser site up, if they did not want to continue with the plan in place, then adapt and do something else. A new photo added every week or so, even if it showed not much new would keep the site active, help with search placement and keep interest in the brand alive. Instead, they cannot deliver until spring, so all activity stops. Not the way to handle this IMHO.
11-28-2015, 08:22 PM   #97
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Don't forget, good marketing strategy never save bad products, so if Ricoh/Pentax seems to miss-up the K-1 teasing ( from our whining point of vue) I think they know how to make good cameras and good lenses, and it is the most important thing I suppose.
The 645-Z was a non expected succes so nobody expect nothing, in the other hand for the long awaited K-1 which a lot of people had very high expectations, it seems logical Ricoh wishes to fine-tune its flag ship, because it will be put under the microscope and nobody will forgive anything in the end.
I prefer they work hard on every details of the new camera than dropping an unfinished product like other brands have done in the past, under the pressure of the marketing department.
11-28-2015, 08:54 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by AOCO Quote
under the pressure of the marketing department.
How do we know it isn't the marketing department pressuring the engineering department to fix things?

11-29-2015, 04:07 AM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Kinda the opposite of effective, actually. I suppose Ricoh being mainly a business to business company is lacking in retail marketing experience, at least at the policy making level. But even so, this sort of thing is embarrassing. It does seem as if they had a plan for the release of the K-1, with the teaser site, a glimpse of the camera at tradeshows and so on. Asahiman also noted that training and other things were all canceled. And canceled so quickly that not everyone got the word, so that parts of the plan went ahead, like the glimpse at the trade show where it was pulled.

Stuff happens, and things go wrong. You have to pick up the pieces and move on by adapting. They have the teaser site up, if they did not want to continue with the plan in place, then adapt and do something else. A new photo added every week or so, even if it showed not much new would keep the site active, help with search placement and keep interest in the brand alive. Instead, they cannot deliver until spring, so all activity stops. Not the way to handle this IMHO.
I just don't know what other information they can feed out from a marketing stand point. We know everything about the camera except the actual sensor that is inside it and a few basic details (frame rate, video codec). We can guess about image quality with and without pixel shift and can guess about auto focus speed and accuracy, but surely most of that stuff has to wait till the camera is actually released. To me, it is probably better to have a quiet period leading up to a big announcement than to steal the thunder by releasing little bits along the way.
11-29-2015, 09:18 AM - 1 Like   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I just don't know what other information they can feed out from a marketing stand point. We know everything about the camera except the actual sensor that is inside it and a few basic details (frame rate, video codec). We can guess about image quality with and without pixel shift and can guess about auto focus speed and accuracy, but surely most of that stuff has to wait till the camera is actually released. To me, it is probably better to have a quiet period leading up to a big announcement than to steal the thunder by releasing little bits along the way.
Different ways of doing things of course. If it were me I would be releasing something every week until CP+ (assuming that is when the actual unveiling is). And it would have zero actual information. All they need do is post a new picture on the teaser site once a week. Still dark, still without showing much, just a slightly different angle. Somewhere along the line I would start to add similar dark and mysterious pictures of lenses, either individually or in groups. We already have seen three of them so nothing really new. Showing other shapes without any info is not giving anything away. They could also show compatible flashes and other accessories.

I would have the site be a slide show, with a new image added every week. So each week the slide show is one image longer. This keeps page views up, increases the ranking for the page and keeps the rumor mill running hot without any actual new info being posted. That is how marketing is supposed to work in retail, drive interest and demand. Marketing at the business to business level is what Ricoh seems to be doing right now. They have no product to release so they stop all marketing efforts as if nothing is happening. That is how things are done in the B&B world, that is how you sell high end business machines. IMHO, it is not how you run a marketing campaign for a retail product.
11-29-2015, 09:25 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
IMHO, it is not how you run a marketing campaign for a retail product.
I don't think this is really a 'retail' product in the normal sense of the word. It won't be a high-volume camera that sells on impulse. It is closer to the 645z, which wasn't 'marketed' at all - it was spoken about in closed circles to professionals.

645 already had a strong hobbyist following in Japan. The 645D had the advantage of a significant stock of A and FA645 lenses already in stock. For the FF, the lens cupboards are probably bare.

645z actually is a commercial product with significant institutional sales to police and government entities. These are the same customers who buy public security cameras with ghostless coatings through the B2B channel.

They do seem torn about how to bring the FF to 'market' though. It seems as if they want us to know they are actually working on it, but they don't want to inhibit purchases of the rest of their line.

Edit: Rearranged a few lines for clarity.

Last edited by monochrome; 11-29-2015 at 09:40 AM.
11-29-2015, 09:31 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I just don't know what other information they can feed out from a marketing stand point. We know everything about the camera except the actual sensor that is inside it and a few basic details (frame rate, video codec). We can guess about image quality with and without pixel shift and can guess about auto focus speed and accuracy, but surely most of that stuff has to wait till the camera is actually released. To me, it is probably better to have a quiet period leading up to a big announcement than to steal the thunder by releasing little bits along the way.
i think there is a lot.
Is SAFOX dead? Do they have a new AF system? Even if just for marketing purposes, they need to move on from this.
Will the OVF have a digital overlay of some form of a hybrid OVF?

The current 86K color/light meter feeds information to the AF system to identify faces and track motion. Could they take that a step farther with a 1-2MP color/light meter and use it for eye lock AF and even better motion tracking? I think there is a lot of potential with the AF/color sensors. Basically take a 2MP sensor with PDAF on chip and let it collect information like a mirrorless camera does.

There is a lot of information they could leak out.
11-29-2015, 09:45 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I don't think this is really a 'retail' product in the normal sense of the word. It won't be a high-volume camera that sells on impulse. It is closer to the 645z, which wasn't 'marketed' at all - it was spoken about in closed circles to professionals.
Well, like I said, different ways to do things. This is not how I would do it, but I'm not who they hired to run the marketing so what do I know. Sure, it is a low volume product, but since they are not really in a position to release any firm info they could be using this to promote the brand in general as well. I doubt at this point that further marketing of the FF will result in any less APS-C sales. Anyone remotely interested in a FF Pentax is aware of the current status and has already 'frozen' their purchases. Whereas more marketing of the brand as moving forward would likely increase sales of current cameras. They need to increase awareness of the brand, they have a highly anticipated product that even if not ready for months would generate web traffic. Why would they not take advantage of that. Links from the teaser site to current offerings increase traffic there as well.

And the cost of having someone add a new picture to a website once a week is simply so low as to be ridiculous.
11-29-2015, 09:51 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by beachgardener Quote
The next big thing will be a Hybrid Film/Digital DSLR no video or flash, but hey you can preview/replay the film images on screen
Kodak had a system like that for pros back in the 90's. It used a split mirror concept. Part of the image went to the camera and part to the sensor. You got an instant screen shot to view on a CRT monitor. It was used by mainly by portrait and school photographers.

Last edited by gaweidert; 11-29-2015 at 10:04 AM.
11-29-2015, 10:15 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Cry me a river...buuhuuu! So much complaining and whining on here.
whining is a national sport on Pentax Forums

I'm truely excited about this 70-200. Even though i have to admit i won't use it much if i had it.

I hope the sales will be good and we well have a light weight 70-200/4 after that ^^
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