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09-18-2015, 12:48 PM   #241
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I looked at the A7 at a local store before buying my K-3 and might have bit except that the EVF gave me an immediate headache and spell of vertigo. I am not kidding!


Steve
That is what happened to me too when I tried the A7 about two years ago. However the new EVFs are world apart from the original A7. I hated the EVF idea at first but I am warming up to the idea given all the advantages it offers.

09-18-2015, 01:05 PM - 3 Likes   #242
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
True enough, although there are signs this very recent turn of events caught many people at Ricoh off-guard. This is highly unlikely. Contracts with Sony would have been signed in 2014 based on firm engineering specs, budgets were set for all of the necessary engineering work to implement the contracted sensor and penalties would be in place if Sony failed to deliver on its promises. In the same way, you don't put all of that investment on hold, just because Sony says they might have a better sensor to offer.

My best guess is that there is a significant design flaw on Ricoh's part, that only came to light after testing of fully functional prototypes. If there was a reasonable chance to fix it within three months, the prototypes would be on display (disabled if need be) along with publishing the final specs, to build up confidence with distributors and end users. At this point, I doubt if anyone at Ricoh knows with reasonable certainty what is required to fix the FF camera and what little is being said right now is just trying to avoid admitting to a major setback until Ricoh has the necessary information to determine whether or not to continue with the FF project. This "delay" is very costly, not just in terms of lost sales, but also in terms of having to re-do everything, from engineering to marketing, for a project that may have been borderline on meeting Ricoh's internal ROI guidelines in the first place.
That's one HECK of a bold statement for someone who can't possibly know anything whatsoever.
09-18-2015, 01:26 PM   #243
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
Saw it. I think Pentax is really trying hard to piss off the diehard Pentaxians. With endless delays both on FF and FF lenses, they are going waaaaay out of their way to kill the Pentax brand altogether. I do not need pixel shift, I do not need 4K (Nice to have them but not a must). Just give me a reasonably priced 36-42MP FF so I do not have to go to Sony or the other guys to get it.
Well, duh! It's obvious *now* that Ricoh's plan all along was simply to piss you off. But who knew way back when they bought Pentax?

If I had known then, I would have called Ricoh and worked out a deal to guarantee that I piss you off (and btw, what an incredibly inane phase that is) 1000 times better than Ricoh have done for tons less money.

Ricoh could have saved themselves $100M and I'd be set for life! Missed my big chance.
09-18-2015, 01:35 PM   #244
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They've finished the first FF camera with the 24Mp sensor, it works fine. And now they do the second model with 42Mp to be releasing in spring 2016, and they can't release the cheaper FF version now to avoid killing the future sales of the 42Mp Pentax FF model. That's the reason!

09-18-2015, 01:44 PM   #245
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QuoteOriginally posted by LaurenOE Quote
Ok, so the FF is coming in 2016.
I'm ready for a "bone"...as in throw me one.

For my K3, how about...

1080p/60
1080p clean HDMI out.
Tweak the bit rate a bit.

Those three could get me to the spring.
Give us SOMETHING.
unfortunately, unlike Fujifilm, Pentax seldom add features via firmware update....
09-18-2015, 01:49 PM   #246
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
That's one HECK of a bold statement for someone who can't possibly know anything whatsoever.
Which statement?

That the delay isn't a result of waiting for another processor from Sony? It's not a bold statement to say that component vendors work with OEM customers so they can do the necessary engineering more than six months in advance of those components actually coming on the market. Even if the new FF camera might become obsolete in less than 18 months, release something now and prepare for a Mk. II version in the meantime.

That the delay must be a result of a serious design flaw? Ricoh can safely release more than just 4 nebulous computer generated images if the holdup is a few tweaks to get the final product to perform according to engineering specs. If the FF camera is close, but not as close as originally thought, Ricoh can always leak more detailed information, start taking pre-orders and let their marketing department continue to build excitement. If no FF cameras actually make their way to distributors for a few more months, it isn't a big deal. However, "Spring 2016" isn't much different than "we're working on it," except when you have already been priming the market for the end of 2015, you just put a few eggs on your face. This is a major blow for Ricoh's credibility with distributors and end users.

That the additional cost of bring the Pentax FF to market could prevent it from ever coming to market? At some point, the FF project won't be able to pay for itself. Which brings me back to the first point in my earlier post. If someone at Ricoh knows what it will take to make the new camera suitable to be marketed, Ricoh's announcement of the delay would be more definite and it would be better managed. For some employees at Ricoh, cancellation of the FF project could seriously affect their careers. Not only does it take years to build internal momentum to bring a product like this to fruition, it takes a lot of capital (human and financial) and the investment of that capital in a particular product needs to be justified on a continual basis.
09-18-2015, 01:57 PM - 1 Like   #247
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
True enough, although there are signs this very recent turn of events caught many people at Ricoh off-guard. This is highly unlikely. Contracts with Sony would have been signed in 2014 based on firm engineering specs, budgets were set for all of the necessary engineering work to implement the contracted sensor and penalties would be in place if Sony failed to deliver on its promises. In the same way, you don't put all of that investment on hold, just because Sony says they might have a better sensor to offer.

My best guess is that there is a significant design flaw on Ricoh's part, that only came to light after testing of fully functional prototypes. If there was a reasonable chance to fix it within three months, the prototypes would be on display (disabled if need be) along with publishing the final specs, to build up confidence with distributors and end users. At this point, I doubt if anyone at Ricoh knows with reasonable certainty what is required to fix the FF camera and what little is being said right now is just trying to avoid admitting to a major setback until Ricoh has the necessary information to determine whether or not to continue with the FF project. This "delay" is very costly, not just in terms of lost sales, but also in terms of having to re-do everything, from engineering to marketing, for a project that may have been borderline on meeting Ricoh's internal ROI guidelines in the first place.
Wow, highly speculative, very unlikely, to say it politely.
How about easing up a little bit. This community is stewing in it's own juice. Not to criticise that, but many assumptions here are very quickly drawn based on very abstract statements. Fair enough, also because of the lack of concrete ones, sure.
But if I follow other places and read comments on the start of the teaser page, the minority is moaning about the timing.
End of 2015 was a very vague goal, for most people spring 2016 seems to not make a big difference.
However, I do understand personal disappointment if someone wanted to immediately buy the camera at availability, especially if he might have drawn the conclusion it would be announced beginning of October. Still, no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater, as the Germans say.
09-18-2015, 02:37 PM   #248
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
A the moment, the sales from K-3 series, K-S2 and APSC lenses seems to be sluggish. Postpone of the Pentax FF = betting the house for Pentax management. It seems to be a move of company turn around. Best case, the FF cam and new portfolio of lenses get the company to reverse its loss of market share trend, or Worst case Pentax just runs out of business.
Sales are slowing down since the mockup was shown at CP+. So this will be so for 15 months, the time between the mockup and maybe the showing of the real ff camera. That is a long time and in between we will see how that turn out in quarterly figures from Ricoh.

09-18-2015, 02:42 PM   #249
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Interesting reading guys. It is obviously far more fun to wildly speculate than to wait.

Looks like my LX and PZ1p will have to work a while longer.

Interesting observation that is a little OT. I noticed the other day that my PZ1p was actually locking focus faster than my K5. Heck, even my Nikon F6 focuses fast enough for that.

It would be nice if Pentax could make their cameras focus fast enough to catch up with the football team in action.

Personally I still do not think that producing a full frame camera is a smart idea for Ricoh Pentax. They already have the best medium format digital camera available and their APS-C cameras are finally becoming truly state of the art from a performance and ergonomic point of view. Trying to build a full frame camera in this market environment will just dilute their current efforts and will take away from their current progress. I am not so sure that this is the smartest thing the company can do in the current market environment.

Obviously I am in the minority.

Well, off to the bear cave to wait until next spring. Perhaps Ricoh will have spun off Pentax by that time.
09-18-2015, 02:43 PM - 1 Like   #250
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The most likely time for me to buy a Pentax FF would be at the time when I'm looking to upgrade from my K-3. Even folks like me, who don't see a lot of benefit to an FF, will give it a look in our next upgrade cycle. And if people look, some of them buy. There are a lot of Pentax users out there who are going to give this camera a look. Recent Pentax history with the K-3 and then the 645z is that they way under-estimate their possible sales, and then fall behind on the initial buying frenzy. I cannot imagine that the FF will be less successful than the K-3 or 645z, even if the rest of the camera market is in decline.
09-18-2015, 02:53 PM   #251
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V-A-V the previous remarks. There have been so many Pentaxians longing for FF for so long, the entire first shipment and more may be pre-ordered before it arrives in the stores.
09-18-2015, 03:02 PM   #252
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
V-A-V the previous remarks. There have been so many Pentaxians longing for FF for so long, the entire first shipment and more may be pre-ordered before it arrives in the stores.
I have absolutely no doubt that you are right, but at what expense to the remainder of their line? That type of selling does not improve things nor does it bring in increased market share. Sales are not stellar as it is and it is not likely that they will improve anytime soon.

As someone has said, Japanese companies have far reaching market plans. Perhaps this delay is to provide them time to further explore the potential market.
09-18-2015, 03:48 PM   #253
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
They've finished the first FF camera with the 24Mp sensor, it works fine. And now they do the second model with 42Mp to be releasing in spring 2016, and they can't release the cheaper FF version now to avoid killing the future sales of the 42Mp Pentax FF model. That's the reason!
I wish I could believe that - a robust but lower-specced FF now and a promise of a ground breaker next year.
Not holding my breath though.
09-18-2015, 03:51 PM   #254
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
I have absolutely no doubt that you are right, but at what expense to the remainder of their line? That type of selling does not improve things nor does it bring in increased market share. Sales are not stellar as it is and it is not likely that they will improve anytime soon.

As someone has said, Japanese companies have far reaching market plans. Perhaps this delay is to provide them time to further explore the potential market.
I suspect that many who will purchase a FF Pentax body are already Pentax owners who see it as an upgrade. Therefore, there's relatively little loss of sale. New Pentax purchasers will opt primarily for low price APS-C bodies. Those of us who already own a K5 or K3 would not be buying a new body unless we perceive the body as an upgrade, such as to FF with new features. So it is unlikely a FF will cut into total Pentax sales or even be a zero-sum product. It should get some new buyers plus owners who would otherwise not purchase another Pentax.
09-18-2015, 04:02 PM   #255
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Haha, all these rage posts remind me of every other gaming forum. The same speculations, conspiracy theories and drama queen "I jump ship if..." attempts at blackmailing.
Very entertaining!
What's really concerning is that kenspo, probably the only guy here who relies on pentax gear to feed his family is pissed because of the delay.
That is way more concerning than all the temper tantrums shown here, as if Pentax would owe anybody anything.
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