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09-18-2015, 08:30 PM   #271
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
So can we sync this information and come to a conclusion that Ricoh lied all this time: they knew they cannot make it be the end of 2015. If they knew it few months after the official statement, they knew it all along because a company must know its contingencies.
Well, that's one view. But I can't find where anyone official actually said 2015 - I think we all inferred 2015 then it came to be fact.

We don't even know who asahi man is, other than his profile elsewhere lists Phillipines as his country.

I feel as taken and disappointed as anyone, but I'm looking in the mirror and laughing at myself. Even did a HaHa post smewhere.

kenspo seems to be the only one who was actively misdirected.

09-18-2015, 08:55 PM   #272
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There's the Ricoh press release:

Pentax Full Frame DSLR Officially Announced - Pentax Announcements | PentaxForums.com
09-18-2015, 09:03 PM   #273
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So what's the FF chronology look like now?

Oct 6 2015 - some genuine camera specifications to be released (?);

end of feb 2016 - CP+ Show Yokahama - 'spring debut' - maybe another mockup under glass, or a product people can handle? Plus 70-200 starts shipping to retail (B&H etc).

Sept 2016 - PhotoKina - formal world-wide launch?, real FF on display, with new FF gear (revised lenses etc) on display too? FF is available in stores world-wide.

In between now and Photokina various trade shows (eg 6-7 Oct DPR's Pix 2015, 21-24 Oct PhotoPlus NY) where more FF info may trickle out, if Pentax attend any of those shows.
09-18-2015, 09:16 PM - 1 Like   #274
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Look, I know that nobody on this forum shares my extremely pessimistic opinion but I really don't think that there will ever be a Pentax Full Frame. I just refuse to believe it will ever happen. I don't believe one word of what Asahi man, Monochrome, or Ricoh have to say. I'm not impressed by crappy mockups of the camera or dark shadowy teaser ads announcing the camera like a Batman film. Pentax FF is like the Loch Ness monster or extraterrestrials to me. I'm going to have to actually see the Pentax FF with my own eyes and watch it power up before I will ever believe it's real. Just like your going to have to show me the actual Loch Ness monster before I ever believe it exists. Only then will I be properly astonished and impressed.

09-18-2015, 09:26 PM   #275
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeff knight Quote
Look, I know that nobody on this forum shares my extremely pessimistic opinion but I really don't think that there will ever be a Pentax Full Frame. I just refuse to believe it will ever happen. I don't believe one word of what Asahi man, Monochrome, or Ricoh have to say. I'm not impressed by crappy mockups of the camera or dark shadowy teaser ads announcing the camera like a Batman film. Pentax FF is like the Loch Ness monster or extraterrestrials to me. I'm going to have to actually see the Pentax FF with my own eyes and watch it power up before I will ever believe it's real. Just like your going to have to show me the actual Loch Ness monster before I ever believe it exists. Only then will I be properly astonished and impressed.
I'm wondering which is the first; Nikon D400 or Pentax FF.
09-18-2015, 09:33 PM   #276
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeff knight Quote
Monochrome
HeHeHaHA.

I don't say anything about the full frame. I don't know anything and haven't for over a year. All I do is try to knock down the crazy speculations at both ends of the curve (and last week I lamented that the speculations would get so crazy everyone would be disappointed no matter what happened). In fact, were it not for stupid rumors and crazy speculations this would be the first delay. This is the first time Pentax has claimed to have a FF in development since early the last decade.

Whatever. I'm upset also. When it comes it comes. If it doesn't I'll shoot film and APSc until they die and then buy Nikon. BFD.
09-18-2015, 09:35 PM   #277
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
There's the Ricoh press release:
Adam says by the end of the year but I'm not seeing it in the Press Release. Not saying it isn't there but I don't see it.
09-18-2015, 09:35 PM   #278
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I would belive it only if The dfa 70-200 f2.8 hints the shellves .

i think the delay is not due to the ff technolgy but due to the delay of dfa 70-200..
70-200 lens is the key and the secret word of any succeded ff camera.
i cant imagine releasing a camera with no modern lens.

09-18-2015, 09:58 PM   #279
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Adam says by the end of the year but I'm not seeing it in the Press Release. Not saying it isn't there but I don't see it.
It's toward the bottom, above the comments

QuoteQuote:
February 5, 2015

RICOH IMAGING to exhibit a reference product at CP+2015 camera and imaging show

RICOH IMAGING COMPANY, LTD. is pleased to announce the exhibition of a reference product a digital SLR camera currently under development at CP+ 2015, one of the largest and most comprehensive camera and imaging shows in Asia. This annual event will be held from February 12 to 15 at the PACIFICO Yokohama convention center in Japan.

Reference Product
Digital SLR camera
Product name: to be decided

K-mount digital SLR camera with a large, 35mm full-frame image sensor
Compatible with DA-series interchangeable lenses, using an image-cropping function
Currently under development for market launch by the end of 2015
Note: The specifications and exterior design of this product are yet to be finalized.
09-18-2015, 10:01 PM   #280
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Adam says by the end of the year but I'm not seeing it in the Press Release. Not saying it isn't there but I don't see it.
DPReview has the same info:
Ricoh announces development of long-awaited full-frame Pentax DSLR: Digital Photography Review

"The company didn't share a whole lot of detail, other than to say that it will be compatible with DA lenses via a crop function and that it will be available by the end of 2015."
09-18-2015, 10:04 PM   #281
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This entire sub-forum really, genuinely, cracks me up.
09-18-2015, 10:04 PM   #282
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I think asahiman is pointing out that the old K-mount manual aperture lever isn't visible in the FF mockup. Have they gotten rid of it? Would suggest major modifications to K-mount in the FF, and no mechanical stop-down anymore. KAF4 time?

Neither are the power-zoom contacts visible either, for that matter. If so, lots of functionality for some [SDM and other] lenses may be lost.

Worrying.
if this true it means they want to sell their new lenses not these oldy ones.
it is better to pentax to sell more new lenses than more camera units which is shard with many suppliers including sensors and mothersboard makers.
if they let buyers to use their legendary lenses so which benfits pentax will gain/?
09-18-2015, 10:05 PM   #283
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Look, I am a pessimist by nature, but even I don't think Ricoh will abandon it.

What I do think will happen is that people will handle a full frame camera and a fast full frame lens and it will make them yearn for the compactness of an APS-C camera. And I think most won't notice much of a difference in IQ unless the are constantly at ISO3200+.
But that is not Ricoh's fault, that is our own. They are giving us what we think we want.
I HIGHLY recommend those that want full frame rent a D750 + 24-70mm f2.8 + 70-200mm f2.8 lenses for a week.
There's a reason why a lot of pros shoot micro 4/3 for for personal stuff.
I am a big dude, but even I got tired of carrying around a 6D + 24-105L around...and the 6D is compact for FF!

Last edited by cali92rs; 09-18-2015 at 10:13 PM.
09-18-2015, 10:09 PM   #284
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Well, that's one view. But I can't find where anyone official actually said 2015 - I think we all inferred 2015 then it came to be fact.
We don't even know who asahi man is, other than his profile elsewhere lists Phillipines as his country.
I feel as taken and disappointed as anyone, but I'm looking in the mirror and laughing at myself. Even did a HaHa post smewhere.
kenspo seems to be the only one who was actively misdirected.
Posted above, from a few sources. Late 2015 was indeed mentioned.
Very little info was given in February indeed, apart from these: it will be an FF camera, will support crop lenses, and market release by the end of 2015.

Extending that period by extra 4-6 months means asking a lot of privileges. It means they indeed knew they cannot make it by the end of 2015. So this must have been planned all long, and we have been submitted to manipulation. I don't know how to put in other words but that they openly lied to public. For example, 1-2 months delay can be explained somehow, but up to 6 months delay? To "perfect the machine"? We are now half-way through the Japanese FY and they are aiming for the next !? Asking for Spring 2016 means the FF was not at all planned for this FY. Period. Most likely 70-210 was planned for the next FY too.

They lied? Yes. Period.

Now is clearer why there was only a plastic mockup presented, not even a real body; they did not get to the stage to say, "Yes, this is the camera, wait for the launch." For the record, Leica once announced its M camera 6 months before of release date, which is unusually long, but Leica never promised one date before that, and then extended it for another 6 months.

Last edited by Uluru; 09-18-2015 at 10:31 PM.
09-18-2015, 11:21 PM   #285
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Extending that period by extra 4-6 months means asking a lot of privileges. It means they indeed knew they cannot make it by the end of 2015. So this must have been planned all long, and we have been submitted to manipulation. I don't know how to put in other words but that they openly lied to public. For example, 1-2 months delay can be explained somehow, but up to 6 months delay? To "perfect the machine"? We are now half-way through the Japanese FY and they are aiming for the next !? Asking for Spring 2016 means the FF was not at all planned for this FY. Period. Most likely 70-210 was planned for the next FY too.
Well, Canon and Nikon do what they want, because they have enough turnover and staffing to run the development of multiple product platforms in parallel. Pentax are having much less resources: very approximately Pentax imaging has about 1000 employees, it used to be larger, but the headcount decreased over several restructuring plans during Hoya's ownership. So, I suppose that all the teasing around the Pentax FF is for two reasons: 1) they had have zero margin in their initial schedule, as something screwed-up they need more time and 2) they decided from the beginning to pump up desires by doing a lot of teasing because they need to capture a large percentage of their serviceable market segment in order to reach break-even quantities and make money with full frame. The risk with teasing is that teasing works for a while by pumping up desires to a peak point, and then this peak desire collapses (you wait, the idea of using a full frame cam develop in your mind ; and then you realize that you don't really need it , or you realize that the full frame myth is just one more camera after all, and that you can get a a real normal without myth 24x36mm full frame affordable cam cheap at Nikon that will render like a 24x36.
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