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09-19-2015, 03:25 PM   #376
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
I can't explain why, although i am a rather "good customer" of "Images Photos - La boutique Pentax" in Paris, having bought there the two last K-mount zooms since last year (16-85 and 150-450), but i recieved a phone call this morning from them.
They seemed aware of potential damage for Pentax sales following yesterday "delay teasing", and seemed keen to reinsure their customers.
They told me that the delay decision is recent - the official announcement was effectively due to be made next october 6th.
They added the K mount FF would be a really good and interesting product, worth waiting until it hits the shelves ; and that it would "not be a simple big sensor K-3II" in the sense that it would have more features.
Finally, they told me there would be more teasing to come re. this product ; and that we should probably have more news before end of 2015.

Nota : these people do sell exclusively Pentax brand photo products ; they are independent from Ricoh. But generally well informed, and often THE very first seller in France for brand new gear, or detender of pre-production stuff (that has been the case for the two last DFA zooms, and they had the DFA70-200/2.8 pre-prod until very recently in store).
Now you should start worry. It's like in soccer, when public support is spoken about a coach........his end is then very nearby!

09-19-2015, 03:43 PM   #377
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Now you should start worry. It's like in soccer, when public support is spoken about a coach........his end is then very nearby!
You really want to make sure that Pentax is doomed don't you.
09-19-2015, 03:57 PM   #378
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
I can't explain why, although i am a rather "good customer" of "Images Photos - La boutique Pentax" in Paris, having bought there the two last K-mount zooms since last year (16-85 and 150-450), but i recieved a phone call this morning from them.
They seemed aware of potential damage for Pentax sales following yesterday "delay teasing", and seemed keen to reinsure their customers.
They told me that the delay decision is recent - the official announcement was effectively due to be made next october 6th.
They added the K mount FF would be a really good and interesting product, worth waiting until it hits the shelves ; and that it would "not be a simple big sensor K-3II" in the sense that it would have more features.
Finally, they told me there would be more teasing to come re. this product ; and that we should probably have more news before end of 2015.

Nota : these people do sell exclusively Pentax brand photo products ; they are independent from Ricoh. But generally well informed, and often THE very first seller in France for brand new gear, or detender of pre-production stuff (that has been the case for the two last DFA zooms, and they had the DFA70-200/2.8 pre-prod until very recently in store).
Thank you for this detailed and interesting report.

I will add that the man behind the Pentax Store in Paris, RIchard Studient, is also the guy who had the idea of and federated the Images Photo network and who owns himself the Lyon outlet, which is the biggest seller of Pentax products in France (actually was, before the opening of the Parisian Pentax Store, and may be still is). He is very dedicated to Pentax and full of ideas to promote the brand and develop the sales of Pentax gear. For instance, he has entered into a partnership with the biggest Pentax-dedicated forum in France, KparK, proposing permanent discounts and special operations to forum members. He is therefore very close to Pentax France, Ricoh Imaging France nowadays, and well informed.
09-19-2015, 04:03 PM   #379
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
I can't explain why, although i am a rather "good customer" of "Images Photos - La boutique Pentax" in Paris, having bought there the two last K-mount zooms since last year (16-85 and 150-450), but i recieved a phone call this morning from them.
They seemed aware of potential damage for Pentax sales following yesterday "delay teasing", and seemed keen to reinsure their customers.
They told me that the delay decision is recent - the official announcement was effectively due to be made next october 6th.
They added the K mount FF would be a really good and interesting product, worth waiting until it hits the shelves ; and that it would "not be a simple big sensor K-3II" in the sense that it would have more features.
Finally, they told me there would be more teasing to come re. this product ; and that we should probably have more news before end of 2015.

Nota : these people do sell exclusively Pentax brand photo products ; they are independent from Ricoh. But generally well informed, and often THE very first seller in France for brand new gear, or detender of pre-production stuff (that has been the case for the two last DFA zooms, and they had the DFA70-200/2.8 pre-prod until very recently in store).
Very interesting information and thank you for sharing it.

My personal opinion, despite some of the doom and gloom on this thread, is that Pentax has a very bright future as part of Ricoh.

I say that because comments in this thread are based on only one tiny data point - an unconfirmed shipping date moving, and these comments tend to miss the bigger picture of Ricoh's wider and long business strategy. Ricoh are a massive business machine company, that needs world class optics, and competes head to head with Canon (not Sony or Nikon). I wrote about this on PF back in February.

So Ricoh will produce the Pentax FF, and they will continue to push their expertise in sensors and optics forward (because they must do this to compete with Canon).

In terms of their long term competition and market positioning verses Canon, acquiring RED as part of their imaging group would also make perfect sense.

Please understand that Japanese companies of this size play a very long game, and also a game that is different to US companies - more of a Warren Buffet style of acquisition and performance, than a digital venture fund style.

I remain very confident about Ricoh, their imaging division, where it fits in their long term critical strategies, and what they will bring to market. They will not be iterating as fast as Sony, but that is not what Ricoh are about.

Patience is what is needed at this point, and also some understanding that we are only seeing one tiny part of a very broad and deep business strategy from a major, highly competitive, very big worldwide company.

Ross

09-19-2015, 04:08 PM - 4 Likes   #380
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In a couple of years, nobody will remember the delay. However, they would remember if an immature Pentax FF were released. Good to get it out quickly; better to get it out perfect.
09-19-2015, 04:20 PM   #381
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Thank you for this detailed and interesting report.

I will add that the man behind the Pentax Store in Paris, RIchard Studient, is also the guy who had the idea of and federated the Images Photo network and who owns himself the Lyon outlet, which is the biggest seller of Pentax products in France (actually was, before the opening of the Parisian Pentax Store, and may be still is). He is very dedicated to Pentax and full of ideas to promote the brand and develop the sales of Pentax gear. For instance, he has entered into a partnership with the biggest Pentax-dedicated forum in France, KparK, proposing permanent discounts and special operations to forum members. He is therefore very close to Pentax France, Ricoh Imaging France nowadays, and well informed.
even not being as well informed as Mistral and Zygonyx , I can confirm the historical implication (?) / excellent relations of Mr Studient with Pentax , I have been a client with them for some time now , and spoken with 3 generations of pentaxians there ; so , what the Parisian Pentax Store can confirm , can be believed .

Last edited by clodomir; 09-19-2015 at 04:29 PM.
09-19-2015, 04:39 PM   #382
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So an unexplained delay with a track record of FF failure. I held off purchasing anything this year in the expectation that Ricoh wasn't lying when they announced that a FF would arrive in October. Turns out they were lying. Even worse, the company has absolutely no marketing competence whatsoever. Sad to see a company become an also-ran due to its own ineptitude. Feeble, Ricoh, just plain feeble. I'm off to buy that XF 90 I was holding off on; at least Fuji delivers. Looks like the only Pentax I'll have left once the eBaying is done is a 645N and a K-1000 (for nostalgia's sake).
09-19-2015, 04:45 PM   #383
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcivorp Quote
I held off purchasing anything this year in the expectation that Ricoh wasn't lying when they announced that a FF would arrive in October. Turns out they were lying.
Show me an official release that mentions an October release date. The only official mention from Ricoh says "For market release by the end of 2015".

09-19-2015, 04:46 PM - 2 Likes   #384
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October was a rumour, admittedly from an otherwise reliable source. Accusations of lying in this thread are unfounded, and even the misinformation fed to kenspo hasn't been proven to be deliberate. If we were to go by the actual company public statements, we'd not have so much rending of garments and gnashing of teeth, here.
09-19-2015, 05:00 PM   #385
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcivorp Quote
So an unexplained delay with a track record of FF failure. I held off purchasing anything this year in the expectation that Ricoh wasn't lying when they announced that a FF would arrive in October. Turns out they were lying. Even worse, the company has absolutely no marketing competence whatsoever. Sad to see a company become an also-ran due to its own ineptitude. Feeble, Ricoh, just plain feeble. I'm off to buy that XF 90 I was holding off on; at least Fuji delivers. Looks like the only Pentax I'll have left once the eBaying is done is a 645N and a K-1000 (for nostalgia's sake).
Lying? I would say they were "wrong", instead.
09-19-2015, 05:04 PM   #386
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Got me there. Spanish shop claimed Oct 2015. Ricoh OFFICIALLY STATED END OF 2015. Last time I checked, April 2016 fell outside the 2015 calendar year.
09-19-2015, 05:12 PM   #387
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcivorp Quote
Got me there. Spanish shop claimed Oct 2015. Ricoh OFFICIALLY STATED END OF 2015. Last time I checked, April 2016 fell outside the 2015 calendar year.
You had to "check"?

Hmmm......

Delays happen in everything.
09-19-2015, 05:15 PM - 1 Like   #388
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcivorp Quote
So an unexplained delay with a track record of FF failure. I held off purchasing anything this year in the expectation that Ricoh wasn't lying when they announced that a FF would arrive in October. Turns out they were lying. Even worse, the company has absolutely no marketing competence whatsoever. Sad to see a company become an also-ran due to its own ineptitude. Feeble, Ricoh, just plain feeble. I'm off to buy that XF 90 I was holding off on; at least Fuji delivers. Looks like the only Pentax I'll have left once the eBaying is done is a 645N and a K-1000 (for nostalgia's sake).
The XF 90 seems to be a very good lens - it certainly is receiving positive reviews. However, isn't it designed for the Fuji X-series of APS-C cameras? Not sure I understand the connection between your comments on Ricoh/Pentax FF and an APS-C lens, but I guess we could agree that Fuji has indeed delivered it to market.

IMO, I don't think there has been any evidence to support your claim that Ricoh was "lying."

Sorry to hear that you've lost all trust in Ricoh. Enjoy your Fuji kit -- they make good cameras and lenses (as do the other manufacturers).

- Craig
09-19-2015, 05:37 PM - 6 Likes   #389
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcivorp Quote
So an unexplained delay with a track record of FF failure. I held off purchasing anything this year in the expectation that Ricoh wasn't lying when they announced that a FF would arrive in October. Turns out they were lying. Even worse, the company has absolutely no marketing competence whatsoever. Sad to see a company become an also-ran due to its own ineptitude. Feeble, Ricoh, just plain feeble. I'm off to buy that XF 90 I was holding off on; at least Fuji delivers. Looks like the only Pentax I'll have left once the eBaying is done is a 645N and a K-1000 (for nostalgia's sake).
Wonderful petulance.

You're now off to buy a 16Mp APS-C camera.

That'll teach 'em! ☺
09-19-2015, 05:39 PM - 3 Likes   #390
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You know, sometimes (or maybe most of the time) I really think that people suffer from serious memory issues and confusion in recent years.

1. So many people post comments like "Pentax is 10 years too late", especially on DPR. Really? I guess that means Nikon should've given up, as they didn't have a FF 10 years ago either. The first Nikon FF was the D3 in 2007.

2. Pentax's so called "broken promises", "record of failure", etc. The "MZ-D" prototype was shown in 2001 (before even the first Canon FF, the 1ds, existed), and was officially canceled shortly after. Pentax then said nothing official about FF for the next 13.5 years until CP+ 2015. This week marks the very first and only official FF delay (that wasn't an outright cancellation). People see the PentaxForums 2012 "FF K-3" April Fool's joke, and have been going ballistic ever since based on that nonsense and third hand rumors.

Man, I'd hate to see what they'd say if they had to deal with delays like those in the video game industry, where there can be a decade or more of "release date: TBA" from official announcement.
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