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09-19-2015, 05:43 PM - 1 Like   #391
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote

Man, I'd hate to see what they'd say if they had to deal with delays like those in the video game industry, where there can be a decade or more of "release date: TBA" from official announcement.
Yah Valve would give them a heart attack with their delays

I think a lot of people here are just incredibly disconnected from reality when it comes to normal business practices, delays are nothing unusual.

09-19-2015, 05:52 PM   #392
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
they are independent from Ricoh. But generally well informed,
Kinda hard to get your NDA to stick with your biggest customer /snicker
09-19-2015, 06:22 PM - 1 Like   #393
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facing reality

I am very glad to hear that Ricoh was not "lying" when they announced the recent delay. It would be unfortunate if the FF was to be cancelled. That being said, companies who do put out products that are inferior then have to get into a habit of never-ending "lies" in order to make everything appear normal. Two comparisons:

The inital Boeing Dreamliner problems that would have led to many deaths if they did not figure out why there were cracks developing during testing.

Compared to General Motors ignition switches, which they have continually covered up for 10 years until consumer groups hammered them with threats of law suits. Unfortunately, I think 124 people have died because of their denial of problems with the technical nature of the problem.

Or how about Canon using crappy, toxic plastics on one of its recent DSLR's and giving many people allergic reactions. They had to respond but did they really do enough???

So, which TYPE of company would you want to depend on as a long-time consumer? Ricoh is doing the right thing to delay and come out with something that can compete. They are also trying to develop a professional network from scratch (that links to the rumor of a new service center opening up in the US next year). They are going to do what they can, but I can imagine that working 100 hours a week and destroying their personal lives just to launch these new initiatives is what some consumers expect from them.

Fortunately, I do not need a FF but I do support the efforts because it leads to a stronger company in the future.
09-19-2015, 06:37 PM - 2 Likes   #394
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Wonderful petulance.

You're now off to buy a 16Mp APS-C camera.

That'll teach 'em! ☺
Actually, just off to my ignore list

09-19-2015, 06:39 PM   #395
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZombieArmy Quote
Yah Valve would give them a heart attack with their delays

I think a lot of people here are just incredibly disconnected from reality when it comes to normal business practices, delays are nothing unusual.
Or the RPG industry...

Kevin Siembieda of Palladium Books announced a game 15 years ago...it's still in the web store available for pre-order...

Palladium Books Store Mechanoids
09-19-2015, 06:56 PM - 1 Like   #396
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visual revolution

Further to this conversation - I have just spent some time in the Investor Relations part of the Ricoh site.

They are in the middle of their 18th Mid Term Management Plan and have some articles relating to that.

More importantly Ricoh have identified the establishing of new businesses based on megatrends, and Ricoh Group strengths of Imaging/Sensing Technologies, Imaging Technology, Inkhead and Ink technology. The new business creation areas identified are Smart Vision, Visual Revolution and Additive Manufacturing - please follow the link to see the graphic on this.

Based on this short write up, and associated information regarding the Theta and how it fits into the Visual Revolution growth strategy, I would have to reiterate that even though the digital camera 'Other' group only makes up 4.9% of Ricoh's current revenue, it is clearly a core and integral part of their overall future growth strategy and mid-term management plan. As a result it will see sustained investment and development.

So, I remain happy that the future for Pentax within the Ricoh Group corporate planning looks very good indeed. Exciting times for Pentax users I would say.

Please note: I am not a shareholder of Ricoh, nor other than using their products am I associated with them in any way. These are my personal opinions based on publicly available information.

Ross
09-19-2015, 08:14 PM   #397
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
I can't explain why, although i am a rather "good customer" of "Images Photos - La boutique Pentax" in Paris, having bought there the two last K-mount zooms since last year (16-85 and 150-450), but i recieved a phone call this morning from them.
They seemed aware of potential damage for Pentax sales following yesterday "delay teasing", and seemed keen to reinsure their customers.
They told me that the delay decision is recent - the official announcement was effectively due to be made next october 6th....
Nice apologetics. But I am not buying it. They are still lying.
They did not answer "how recent" decision was, since the availability of 70-210 was toyed with as well, since May/June, and some time ago on reseller websites stated "delivery in March 2016"? That was months before this resurrection of the pentax.com website.
If the camera is postponed, why is a highly desirable lens — which can be used on available cameras — postponed to match the approximate new camera release date? Their entire FF launch turns slowly into a big fiasco, and no amount of lying will help. Stating the truth might help it for once.
Or at least AN EXACT NEW DATE in 2016.

If they stated in February:

Market release late 2015 / early 2016,

And now in October stated on the website:

16.03.2016

there would be no problems!

How difficult is it to be honest with customers? Not at all!

Last edited by Uluru; 09-19-2015 at 08:20 PM.
09-19-2015, 08:29 PM   #398
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At the time of this writing, this thread has 397 posts, so I don't read every one completely. Please excuse me if the following is irrelevant or has been already raised.

If I'm not mistaken, October 6th became the target date as a result of a calculation based on Asahiman's reference to 42 days awhile back. At that time, although there was a definite hint that something significant would occur, I don't recall there being any specific indication that this date will be the actual release date of the FF.

Am I ignoring something?

09-19-2015, 08:33 PM   #399
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QuoteOriginally posted by goldenarrow Quote
I am very glad to hear that Ricoh was not "lying" when they announced the recent delay.
They were. And still are. At least, the truth is inconvenient. Other products postponed tell they are slightly muddling around with sheets, financial years, masking of results, etc.

FF project is important, and one asks, could not they think of a safety net of some sort? Like, stating an approximate date that fits late 2015 and early 2016 and cover all contingencies? Of course they could, but something else is going on.

There is something fishy here, and I have a strange feeling many folks are gonna be disappointed this October. At least for a while, required to recover from the surprise. To me it more looks like high end FF (I expect two machines) will be a clear slate — no more full legacy lens support, or something like that, and all the new tech and gizmos will be in it. It will work with old lenses to a limited degree, BUT, all new set of lenses will be made for it. Which users will need to buy if they want to justify the machine.

Other machine I expect to be some sort of K-3 with an FF. In other words, one FF machine is there to create a new future for the K-mount, because K-mount is neck deep in the past.

Last edited by Uluru; 09-19-2015 at 08:42 PM.
09-19-2015, 08:52 PM - 2 Likes   #400
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Nice apologetics. But I am not buying it. They are still lying...
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Engineering errors, parts supply issues, or other problems might have happened after they announced the FF would be ready by end of 2015. (Or they could be lying. All you and I can do is guess.)
09-19-2015, 08:55 PM - 2 Likes   #401
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Very nice Princess Bride reference there
09-19-2015, 08:58 PM   #402
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QuoteOriginally posted by bxf Quote
At the time of this writing, this thread has 397 posts, so I don't read every one completely. Please excuse me if the following is irrelevant or has been already raised.

If I'm not mistaken, October 6th became the target date as a result of a calculation based on Asahiman's reference to 42 days awhile back. At that time, although there was a definite hint that something significant would occur, I don't recall there being any specific indication that this date will be the actual release date of the FF.

Am I ignoring something?
Long before Asahiman's recent October countdown, a company press release said the FF would be released by the end of 2015. Also see this photo (https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/304059-pentax-ff-sp...ml#post3376083) of a Pentax sign from some event that repeated the 2015 claim. That's what's causing all the drama now that the Ricoh Japan site says Spring 2016 - the FF went from December 31 at the latest to February 5 at the earliest. (I'm assuming Feb 5 = Spring because the news is from the Ricoh Japan site, and Feb 5 is the traditional Japanese calendar)

Last edited by DeadJohn; 09-19-2015 at 09:04 PM.
09-19-2015, 09:58 PM   #403
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Are you talking about the transition to bayonet mount...
or autofocus....
or digital...
or full frame...

got to be more specific :P



This thread is about full frame, no? As Pentax has talked about a future full frame camera, Canon, Nikon and Sony released generation after generation of full frame cameras. That continues.
09-20-2015, 12:17 AM   #404
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
You really want to make sure that Pentax is doomed don't you.
probably he tried to wing an ambassadorship but was refused, hence the negativity.
his presentation to pentax/ricoh never saw the daylight on the Dutch forum.

Last edited by Franc; 09-20-2015 at 12:22 AM.
09-20-2015, 12:36 AM   #405
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Wonderful petulance.

You're now off to buy a 16Mp APS-C camera.

That'll teach 'em! ☺
Do you think he had any intention of buying the Pentax FF?

Regarding the other subject - Ricoh Imaging were definitely not lying. They told us the truth, which in spring 2015 was that the camera was due to be launched before the end of the year. Then, something happened and the due date was pushed to spring 2016. Now this is the truth.
And since Ricoh knows better than force their luck, it could very well be the final truth.

Changes happens - triggered by inside or outside (e.g. competitors preparing to launch their own products) factors; estimations have a lousy accuracy; and even if you're 100% reliable your suppliers might not be.
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