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09-27-2015, 12:24 AM   #631
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It should be name as "Pentax LX".

09-27-2015, 12:36 AM   #632
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QuoteOriginally posted by kay9080 Quote
It should be name as "Pentax LX".
Only if it has a VERY special viewfinder. Otherwise, it won't be a LX
09-27-2015, 01:02 AM   #633
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
I'm getting back to this statement reported by kenspo -emphasis added is mine. Something just came to my mind; since:

(i) the sales of K-3 II are well below the objectives assigned to the camera, at least in France and in Europe (information gathered from a few Pentax retailers and then confirmed by people from Ricoh Imaging France, the latter being also the European headquarter of Ricoh Imaging);

(ii) the most violent criticism made against K-3 II, in the press and on the forums, is the lack of built-in flash;

(iii) the mock-up of the future 24x36 camera presented at CP+ witnessed the absence of built-in flash at that stage of the project;

(iv) Ricoh Imaging are keen on responding to criticisms from Pentax customers, see for instance the "Ricoh" label put on the backside of K-3 and then removed from more recent cameras;

what if the "enriched functions and specifications" to be brought to the 24x36 camera "to satisfy customers" had to do with the re-introduction of a built-in flash and the subsequent re-arrangement of the wi-fi / astrotracer module?

Just food for thought.
Sounds good. The only thing troubling me is the time it takes. Apperently they lack smartness to move faster in live. I could have made all these decisions over one weekend two years ago.
09-27-2015, 01:11 AM   #634
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Or they really are capacity constrained and need to produce more K3 II because once they run the FF production, they'd better still have enough K3 II in warehouses.

09-27-2015, 02:02 AM   #635
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
Only if it has a VERY special viewfinder. Otherwise, it won't be a LX
And -6.5 EV exposure metering, I noticed the other day. That was an impressive LX spec.
Best any DSLR can do nowdays is -3 EV (K-3, K-3 II, A7R II, A7S).
09-27-2015, 02:09 AM   #636
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I could have made all these decisions over one weekend two years ago.
That's for sure, you can be much faster alone at decision making than in a group. Even worse is decision making during mergers. The experience that I have with mergers is that it sucks companies' resources for at least one year: while competitors are working on developing new products, the merged company is trying to sort out how to reorganize, who to keep and who to fire, legacy efficient work flows are broken and new work flows have to be re-established again etc. Ricoh imaging + Pentax imaging is 1+1 = 1.
09-27-2015, 03:43 AM   #637
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
I'm getting back to this statement reported by kenspo -emphasis added is mine. Something just came to my mind; since:

(i) the sales of K-3 II are well below the objectives assigned to the camera, at least in France and in Europe (information gathered from a few Pentax retailers and then confirmed by people from Ricoh Imaging France, the latter being also the European headquarter of Ricoh Imaging);

(ii) the most violent criticism made against K-3 II, in the press and on the forums, is the lack of built-in flash;

K3II is a 'kick the can along the path', as some users described it. It is practically same camera as the K-3, and with K-3 being $200 cheaper, who will buy K3II? The complaint about the astrotracer and GPS instead of flash in the K-3II is the most ridiculous complaint ever. However, Ricoh is guilty of it. Read below.


QuoteQuote:

(iii) the mock-up of the future 24x36 camera presented at CP+ witnessed the absence of built-in flash at that stage of the project;

(iv) Ricoh Imaging are keen on responding to criticisms from Pentax customers, see for instance the "Ricoh" label put on the backside of K-3 and then removed from more recent cameras;

what if the "enriched functions and specifications" to be brought to the 24x36 camera "to satisfy customers" had to do with the re-introduction of a built-in flash and the subsequent re-arrangement of the wi-fi / astrotracer module?

Just food for thought.

Food for thought is this: Ricoh is guilty of this situation of poor sales of the K3II, and for most ridiculous complaints about the lack of flash in it, because Ricoh did nothing to create anything above the K-3 level of camera in these 4 years.

Ricoh had practically trained users into thinking that Pentax will always cater for amateurs, that their cameras will always be overcomplicated and heavier with each successive release because they support each Asahi's tech since 1923.

Same those amateurs, apparently, have no spare money to buy even a small flash, or learn how to use it. So people are totally unused to think of a Pentax camera without an onboard flash. And because Ricoh only has K-3 that caters as both medium and upper tier DSLR, they have received mixed feedback about the K3II — which is an excellent camera, yet in reality is nothing but the K-3, which had become a new medium level DSLR and K3II upper level DSLR.

Who indeed creates there ridiculous problems and non-issues? Ricoh, unfortunately. Because the division of their DSLR range is artificial and nonexistent. They show they are capable only of milking the current tech infused with a minimum of investment, yet they did not create any real upper level equipment to train new customers and justify price differences and feature sets.

So let them put their heads together, and deliver that damn FF for once, and if possible, two FFs. One with and one without a flash but with astrotracer and GPS for people who can take photography onto another level. With such a move people can be trained from anew into thinking that Pentax is indeed a pro-gear brand and that their cameras can have more than on-board flash (which is rubbish and good for nothing).

If Ricoh has stopped the FF to come in time, only to put on board flash again into the camera, then they are totally crazy!

Considering they did same with the GRII, this is no coincidence. Ricoh must understand that it cannot milk same tech forever. It cannot reissue same old camera, add one new part in it, and let the 'new camera' act as an upper tier 'new' camera above the old, and charge extra $100 or $200 for it. It is outrageous.

Last edited by Uluru; 09-27-2015 at 04:59 AM.
09-27-2015, 04:20 AM   #638
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Guy please, do not spend that much time on that flash issue. For K3-II I think an engineer said they could not afford to have both astrotracer and flash because they didn't want to change the case. Even if K3-II had a flash it would not be much different than K3 anyway.

Will not be the case for the FF.

But anyway the lack on inclusion of on-board flash for K3-II has nothing to do with the FF. More we have no way to know if the FF will have or not a flash and whatever the choice or make Ricoh change its mind.

09-27-2015, 04:41 AM   #639
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
(...)

But anyway the lack on inclusion of on-board flash for K3-II has nothing to do with the FF. More we have no way to know if the FF will have or not a flash and whatever the choice or make Ricoh change its mind.
Time will tell. If the actual camera has no on-board flash I was definitely wrong. If it has one I might have been right .
09-27-2015, 04:46 AM - 1 Like   #640
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
That's for sure, you can be much faster alone at decision making than in a group. Even worse is decision making during mergers. The experience that I have with mergers is that it sucks companies' resources for at least one year: while competitors are working on developing new products, the merged company is trying to sort out how to reorganize, who to keep and who to fire, legacy efficient work flows are broken and new work flows have to be re-established again etc. Ricoh imaging + Pentax imaging is 1+1 = 1.

You must be talking about the favorite buzzword to justify mergers. SYNERGY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What it really means is "We don't have a clue as to what we are doing and no way of telling what is going to happen." I have never seen a positive synergy after any merger I have been through,
09-27-2015, 06:14 AM   #641
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
I have never seen a positive synergy after any merger I have been through
Me too ! That's what I meant by the type of M&A that Ricoh did (the goal was eventually to put Ricoh and Pentax customers in the same basket, and layoff redundant staff to reduce costs).

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
If Ricoh has stopped the FF to come in time, only to put on board flash again into the camera, then they are totally crazy!
If this is the reason, it's a bad one, because I think that in camera flash popup is a low value functional feature, not more. I seldom use the pop-up flash as it does not render good images.

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Ricoh must understand that it cannot milk same tech forever. It cannot reissue same old camera, add one new part in it, and let the 'new camera' act as an upper tier 'new' camera above the old, and charge extra $100 or $200 for it. It is outrageous.
In current market situation, to be profitable, camera companies need to be sized like Ricoh imaging and have the market share of Canon or Nikon. With the FF camera turn, Ricoh decided to take the risk that Pentax did not want to take, they bet the house, they've suddenly changed from "redo of the same" product to new system design and the reason for teasing and additional delay is likely because they have no right to error. If the FF sells well, they win, if not , it's going to be a disaster I'm sorry. So, the Pentax full frame must be a killer and affordable product at the time press release and with no reliability issue at all. Here with the Pentax full frame camera having a life of 4 years or so, a missed product introduction would have huge impact on the product sale for several years, a recall of faulty camera is too expensive, both in terms of the cost of the repair and damage of brand image.
09-27-2015, 06:53 AM - 1 Like   #642
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
That's for sure, you can be much faster alone at decision making than in a group. Even worse is decision making during mergers. The experience that I have with mergers is that it sucks companies' resources for at least one year: while competitors are working on developing new products, the merged company is trying to sort out how to reorganize, who to keep and who to fire, legacy efficient work flows are broken and new work flows have to be re-established again etc. Ricoh imaging + Pentax imaging is 1+1 = 1.

My feeling says their down to 0,75!
09-27-2015, 07:10 AM   #643
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
My feeling says their down to 0,75!
You mean minus 0.25 thanks to some issues of cohesion in the management team :-)
09-27-2015, 09:44 AM   #644
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
That's for sure, you can be much faster alone at decision making than in a group. Even worse is decision making during mergers. The experience that I have with mergers is that it sucks companies' resources for at least one year: while competitors are working on developing new products, the merged company is trying to sort out how to reorganize, who to keep and who to fire, legacy efficient work flows are broken and new work flows have to be re-established again etc. Ricoh imaging + Pentax imaging is 1+1 = 1.
I worked at an aerospace company in the middle of a merger. I'm sure that management used up all kinds of energy during that time, but engineering continued as usual. I have no reason to think that Ricoh management got in the way of Pentax engineering.
09-27-2015, 09:51 AM   #645
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But Hoya did, when they prepared Pentax for sale: there was no K-mount product whatsoever in 2011.
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