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10-07-2015, 08:28 AM   #856
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I know the specs, but if i share now, they will come from Japan to hunt me down!!! lol
May be you can send a PM

10-07-2015, 08:33 AM   #857
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom S. Quote
Numbers aren't computing here. According to what I've seen posted, the recall only affected the first two months of production units. Adding two months to the production schedule doesn't take us out of this year, let alone next spring.
They never tell you everything... but if that's what they feel is relevant, I'm happy going with that. After all, a partial explanation is better than none. No matter what they give people, they always want more..
10-07-2015, 09:04 AM   #858
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Well, I guess we are only a few weeks short of the project cancellation notice, assuming history repeats itself.

FWIW, I remember the original 2000 announcement and also the speculation in the photo press that continued until the *ist D released.


Steve
So do I.

For some reason, this is what I envision the upper management team looking like. :3stooges:
10-07-2015, 10:00 AM   #859
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom S. Quote
Numbers aren't computing here. According to what I've seen posted, the recall only affected the first two months of production units. Adding two months to the production schedule doesn't take us out of this year, let alone next spring.
Are you sure they didn't have started a new batch they couldn't delay?
Did you take into account the time lost to reconfigure the line?
Are you sure that you need the same time to do a normal assembly or to manage a recall? Maybe the line is not optimized for that and it take more time?
Are we sure that it is worth to deliver as soon as possible if Ricoh can't target Christmass period ? The lowest sales are typically between january and march and it is when you get the most rebate because shops are trying to get rid of the unsold stock from Chrismass and people actual got their new toy just before. Maybe shops are not that willing to get more stock in such period and maybe having more money out for a longer period is a bad choice.

To me just because we have seen somewhere that apparently only the 2 first months of production is affected doesn't justify the wait is an over simplification that could indeed be true or completely wrong.

As if Ricoj said it all, for me they should not. We already prooved we are not mature enough for that. To me they should provide the minimum information to have us child stay more or less silent.

10-07-2015, 10:02 AM   #860
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I agree, numbers don't have to match exactly; besides, they (hopefully) might decide to make a few changes, and not launch exactly the same product they have ready now.
And don't forget about CP+.
10-07-2015, 10:18 AM - 1 Like   #861
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I know the specs, but if i share now, they will come from Japan to hunt me down!!! lol
Thanks kenspo for the reliable info. This makes some sense i suppose. Appreciate your time for keeping us updated. Always greatly appreciated by the PF members (apart from Uluru)....who I think by the way needs to buy a canon. Hahahaha
10-07-2015, 10:21 AM   #862
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I know the specs, but if i share now, they will come from Japan to hunt me down!!! lol
QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
Some guy with lots of tattoos will cut your pinkie finger off.
More likely, his trigger fingers.
10-07-2015, 11:01 AM   #863
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Are you sure they didn't have started a new batch they couldn't delay?
Did you take into account the time lost to reconfigure the line?
Are you sure that you need the same time to do a normal assembly or to manage a recall? Maybe the line is not optimized for that and it take more time?
Are we sure that it is worth to deliver as soon as possible if Ricoh can't target Christmass period ? The lowest sales are typically between january and march and it is when you get the most rebate because shops are trying to get rid of the unsold stock from Chrismass and people actual got their new toy just before. Maybe shops are not that willing to get more stock in such period and maybe having more money out for a longer period is a bad choice.

To me just because we have seen somewhere that apparently only the 2 first months of production is affected doesn't justify the wait is an over simplification that could indeed be true or completely wrong.

As if Ricoj said it all, for me they should not. We already prooved we are not mature enough for that. To me they should provide the minimum information to have us child stay more or less silent.
Having more than a passing knowledge of Japanese quick change assembly line processes, I'll stand by my original statement. In fact, I strongly suspect this repair work will not impact the current line process at all, only the labor needed to do the actual work. As for your last paragraph, I'm lost at what you're trying to convey as parts of it don't seem to make sense.

10-07-2015, 11:12 AM   #864
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What we are saying is Pentax says that the delay is because of the K-3 II problem. DO we take that at face value... I suspect it's part of the issue. The thing I get from that is "we are still planning to produce the FF, keep saving your money." That's what pentax wants us to be thinking. SO from that perspective, analysizing product lines etc. is not important. Look at the message and what it says, not the semantics of the message. What it says is, "as soon as we can make it we will." Now if you choose to claim that they could make it sooner and are holding back, no problem , believe what you will, but it doesn't change the message I see. And the message I see makes me neither sceptical nor optimistic. All I know is how Pentax marketing wants me to think, and I'm quite happy to take that under advisement in thinking about these things.
10-07-2015, 11:27 AM   #865
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
What we are saying is Pentax says that the delay is because of the K-3 II problem. DO we take that at face value... I suspect it's part of the issue. The thing I get from that is "we are still planning to produce the FF, keep saving your money." That's what pentax wants us to be thinking. SO from that perspective, analysizing product lines etc. is not important. Look at the message and what it says, not the semantics of the message. What it says is, "as soon as we can make it we will." Now if you choose to claim that they could make it sooner and are holding back, no problem , believe what you will, but it doesn't change the message I see. And the message I see makes me neither sceptical nor optimistic. All I know is how Pentax marketing wants me to think, and I'm quite happy to take that under advisement in thinking about these things.
It's what Ricoh told Kenspo. I don't know which Ricoh Kenspo talks to. Norway? Europe? Asahiman hasn't said anything about the K-3 II being the problem and I think he is closer to the source.
10-07-2015, 11:33 AM   #866
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
What we are saying is Pentax says that the delay is because of the K-3 II problem. DO we take that at face value... I suspect it's part of the issue. The thing I get from that is "we are still planning to produce the FF, keep saving your money." That's what pentax wants us to be thinking. SO from that perspective, analysizing product lines etc. is not important. Look at the message and what it says, not the semantics of the message. What it says is, "as soon as we can make it we will." Now if you choose to claim that they could make it sooner and are holding back, no problem , believe what you will, but it doesn't change the message I see. And the message I see makes me neither sceptical nor optimistic. All I know is how Pentax marketing wants me to think, and I'm quite happy to take that under advisement in thinking about these things.
Sorry, but I tend to work in absolutes, especially when absolutes are involved.

Kenspro stated:

QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Spoke to Pentax today. It is the callback of all the K-3 II's that is the reason for the delay. The production line can't handle both the callback and the production of the FF. The FF is ready and specs are finished. Will start production as soon as the K-3 II issue is fixed.
The absolute in this statement is that the K-3 II recall is backing up FF introduction until spring, whenever that may be. Speaking from a manufacturing standpoint, and the number of units involved, the time frame doesn't fit. Period.

Now absolutes aside, everyone can speculate what else may be adding to the delay, and that's OK. I would even go so far as to say it could be fun. My own speculation goes like this: given the problems with the K5 and K3 II, Ricoh wants to pad the launch date to ensure the product hits the 'official' release date and that the end product is as defect free as possible. I can readily accept this explanation as a plausible reason why the 'spring' date is so vague and why the time frame I referenced above doesn't work out to be real accurate.

And to all, please don't get the mistaken idea I'm disputing anything kenspro said. He can only pass on what he's told, and most of us appreciate that. I'm merely pointing out that the info he was provided has a timeline issue.

10-07-2015, 11:37 AM - 1 Like   #867
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I am just as excited as you guys about the FF release, but at the same time I am happy that I can squeeze out all the usage possible out of my k5 and soon to be obsolete 16-50 stars. I am still taking awesome shots and am having a ball with it too. So at the end of he day, let be happy that FF will come and in the meantime let's get every last sent out of out apsc gear before it gets packed away Ina box and forgotten about
10-07-2015, 11:47 AM   #868
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I know the specs, but if i share now, they will come from Japan to hunt me down!!! lol
EDIT: The following probably doesn't make sense, if there never was an official explanation.

-----
I find it a bit odd that Ricoh apparently doesn't mind to be looking like a liar now.

We first got an official reason for the delay ("new features") and now Ricoh is happy for you to share the real reason ("production capacity")?

I'm not saying Ricoh's first explanation was right and you are wrong or vice versa, I'm just saying the contradiction is not a good look.
-----

EDIT: I just remembered that the first reason we were given was not an official bulletin from Ricoh, or was it? If the first reason ("more features") was just an unofficial rumour then everything is fine.

Perhaps Ricoh is sometimes handing out different information at different places to see where the leaks are?

Last edited by Class A; 10-07-2015 at 12:02 PM.
10-07-2015, 11:52 AM   #869
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I find it a bit odd that Ricoh apparently doesn't mind to be looking like a liar now.

We first got an official reason for the delay ("new features") and now Ricoh is happy for you to share the real reason ("production capacity")?

I'm not saying Ricoh's first explanation was right and you are wrong or vice versa, I'm just saying the contradiction is not a good look.
Pffft, RIcoh didn't say anything. We have no idea what Ricoh wants... except to sell us an FF camera. Kenspro is Kenspro, Asahiman is Asahiman, they both provide information that is not official Ricoh. It cannot even be assumed to be coming from official Ricoh sources. It's coming form people somewhere in the marketing chain, not Ricoh head office, not a Ricoh executive... get a grip folks.
10-07-2015, 12:09 PM   #870
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
... get a grip folks.
Your condescension is uncalled for.

First, it was an individual mistake, no need to appeal to multiple people.

Second, I wrote the first version after I got out of bed and realised my likely mistake -- still don't know where the first explanation came from -- on my own before having read your reply, while I took the first bite of my breakfast.
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