[Class A]

We have proof that at least one time kenspo communicated plainly wrong information.

I'm unaware of that and would like to make it explicit that at no time I was intending to suggest that kenspo cannot be trusted. On the contrary, I trust him and if he has been wrong in the past then probably just because Pentax just changed their mind mid-course.

I would much rather they shipped the FF well tested and working, not with known or potential problems that have bled up from earlier designs and models.

I am certainly looking forward to the spec release

+1

[Nicolas06]

I'm unaware of that and would like to make it explicit that at no time I was intending to suggest that kenspo cannot be trusted. On the contrary, I trust him and if he has been wrong in the past then probably just because Pentax just changed their mind mid-course.

The release date of the FF remind you of something? It shifted to 2016. Before was said to be fall 2015. What ever the reason the practical implication is not all what kenspo say will actually be accurate.

Not to say that kenspo is a bad guy but the past track record is not a 100% success rate, whatever the reason. I don't blame him at all, delays happen all the time in many companies for many things. But the experience show that he has been wrong at least one time already. He could be wrong another time. And really I wouldn't blame him. But that would not make him more accurate.

He say to be under contract with Ricoh. To me then he has a personnal interrest on top of legal obligations... It doesn't make him the most neutral source of information in town neither.

And no I have nothing again kenspo or Ricoh but there a difference between that and being being blindy faithful in what will hapen to the exact delivery date of Pentax FF. There too many variables involved here.

[Kunzite]

The release date of the FF remind you of something? It shifted to 2016. Before was said to be fall 2015. What ever the reason the practical implication is not all what kenspo say will actually be accurate.

Hold your horses; until recently the official information, straight from Ricoh Imaging was that the FF will be announced this year. Kenspo saying (more or less) the same was accurate, at that time.
Unless you think he should have predicted the future, and know about the postponement before even Ricoh Imaging did.

And the stuff about having "a personal interrest"... oh, boy. Don't be an uluru; he's trying to make us a service, because he can understand our impatience.

[normhead]

The release date of the FF remind you of something? It shifted to 2016. Before was said to be fall 2015. What ever the reason the practical implication is not all what kenspo say will actually be accurate.

Not to say that kenspo is a bad guy but the past track record is not a 100% success rate, whatever the reason. I don't blame him at all, delays happen all the time in many companies for many things. But the experience show that he has been wrong at least one time already. He could be wrong another time. And really I wouldn't blame him. But that would not make him more accurate.

He say to be under contract with Ricoh. To me then he has a personnal interrest on top of legal obligations... It doesn't make him the most neutral source of information in town neither.

And no I have nothing again kenspo or Ricoh but there a difference between that and being being blindy faithful in what will hapen to the exact delivery date of Pentax FF. There too many variables involved here.

No one here blindly believeing anything here, unless it might have been you.

Sorry if you got sucked in, I didn't.

---

Last edited by normhead; 10-07-2015 at 01:29 PM.

[Pål Jensen]

As if Ricoj said it all, for me they should not. We already prooved we are not mature enough for that. To me they should provide the minimum information to have us child stay more or less silent.

????

[hopey]

Spoke to Pentax today. It is the callback of all the K-3 II's that is the reason for the delay. The production line can't handle both the callback and the production of the FF. The FF is ready and specs are finished. Will start production as soon as the K-3 II issue is fixed.

And now i'll quote myself. Post # 501 of this very same thread:

According to Pentaxeros admin, the reason of the delay is lack of production capacity created because of the K3II recall (cameras with some kind of switch off problem)

[zmohie]

i think ricoh will redesign the camera body to includ a built in flash.
the lack of built in flash in k3ii gave them a negative feedback.
the delay is to change the design not to chose a new sensor.
and these are my thoughts.

[kenspo]

After Hoya's raping of Pentax, people need to understand, that the production line with Pentax, is down to a minimum. They have no chance to produce as much as other brands..yet! I asked if i could share this info today, they said it has been cleared higher up in the chain. So take it the way you want. I just want to share what i can, but if people start getting at me for the info, i dont gain anything by sharing, so no stress for me to not share anymore. Like it or not, but dont shoot the messenger! Now back to read about the FF specs!

---------- Post added 10-07-15 at 10:55 PM ----------

i think ricoh will redesign the camera body to includ a built in flash.

No, they wont!

[Zygonyx]

No, they wont!

And imho they are right to do so.

[repaap]

I was going in for a sleep...but this conversation has got me still looking...my god. Camera company tried it's best to repair product and is making a very new one at same time. Perhaps this camera-line is not as fast as every one thinks. Or is here so many experts that can tell how long it takes to get back faulty cameras, Set up a line for those and repair them. Send them back. Then prepair a line for new model. Make sure that everything is in order and them make perfect models which are precicelly made. Programming computer for robots...

No, that makes a Kenspro as a liar! Some one want's to get back to him...lol.

Thanks Kenspo for info.

[Mistral75]

(...)

I just remembered that the first reason we were given was not an official bulletin from Ricoh, or was it? If the first reason ("more features") was just an unofficial rumour then everything is fine.

Perhaps Ricoh is sometimes handing out different information at different places to see where the leaks are?

(...)

still don't know where the first explanation came from.

(...)

From some forum member named kenspo:

Pentax answer on the question around being behind schedule:

"No, we are on schedule. But we have decided to enrich some functions and specifications furthermore to satisfy our customers.
We are expecting different launching schedule from previous announcement considering the time we need to develop."

[Tom S.]

Stupid to say but isn't the actual units made in philipines, not Japan? Also are you sure they can find the required labor? Also you speak general of Japan assembly lines. You mean for cameras? Consumer good in general? Vehicules? Then do you know Pentax/Ricoh and their own efficiancy for that? Are they bellow average? faster? slower?

Do you know exactly what the problem is? What the fix involve?

Japanese based manufacturing processes are followed in Japanese plants no matter where they are located, even in the US. After WWII, Japan tried to restructure it's industry which was devastated by the war. Initially all they succeeded in doing was getting a reputation for producing junk. Japanese industry - read that as: ALL JAPANESE INDUSTRY, and their government turned to their conquerors, the US for help. A very large portion of that help came in the form of a man named Dr. Deming. He taught the Japanese industrialists that quality doesn't cost, it pays. He taught them several other lessons that I'm not going to elaborate on, which the Japanese took to heart. Soon, manufacturing jobs started disappearing from the US and Europe, replaced by products made in Japan. It started out small, with electronic goods. Pretty soon, all transistor radios were made in Japan. Then TV's and stereos started coming from there. And motorcycles. And watches. And cameras. And eventually cars. In other countries, such as South Korea manufacturers took lessons from the Japanese model of manufacturing and began to compete head to head with the Japanese. As the global market and competition grew, Japanese businessmen, looking for cheaper labor and taxes in order to maintain profits, moved their factories to other countries, but they took their successful manufacturing processes with them. In some cases, they built factories in other countries to avoid taxes and shipping costs - hence Japanese car plants in the US.

I suspect you meant to ask if I was sure Ricoh couldn't find the required labor, and I'll answer that question: Yes, I'm sure. Putting cameras together isn't necessarily rocket science, but it does require some skill and training. A company would be either desperate or dumb to spend the resources training new workers, have them work for a couple months and then get rid of them. Depending on the country, there may also be additional costs such as unemployment insurance, etc. As a side note, new workers are also more prone to make errors. Would it make any sense to hire workers who were naturally prone to make mistakes, to correct mistakes that had already been made?

Do I know what Pentax efficiency is? Nope, nor do I care. But I can tell you that any manufactured items moved from Japan to other countries either took the Japanese production culture with them or suffered. Nor do I know what the K3 II problem is or what needs to be done to fix it. What I do know is industry. And industry is industry, no mater what the product, just that same as business is business.

You may continue to dispute the things I say, that is your option. However I spent 38.5 years involved in US industry at various levels and I'm not pulling this stuff out of thin air.

[Tom S.]

????

Yeah, I couldn't figure that one out either. I take it English is a second language as he is from France, and I'll guarantee his English is vastly superior to my French, but that string of sentences left me scratching my head too.

[Mistral75]

The more I think about it, the less I understand how the refurbishment of 2 months of K-3 II production can delay the 24x36 camera's announcement by something like 5 months (from early October to late February).

Besides, two different (and contradictory) reasons brought forward by the same people (Ricoh Imaging Scandinavia through kenspo) in less than 3 weeks:

- on September 18th: " we have decided to enrich some functions and specifications furthermore to satisfy our customers. We are expecting different launching schedule from previous announcement considering the time we need to develop.""

- on October 7th: "It is the callback of all the K-3 IIs that is the reason for the delay. The production line can't handle both the callback and the production of the FF. The FF is ready and specs are finished."

sounds a bit fishy...

Sorry kenspo, I don't buy the messages you have been asked to deliver. Either of them.

[kenspo]

Sorry kenspo, I don't buy the messages you have been asked to deliver. Either of them.

What you belive or not, i couldn't care less about. So no worries!