[D1N0]

Yeah, I couldn't figure that one out either. I take it English is a second language as he is from France, and I'll guarantee his English is vastly superior to my French, but that string of sentences left me scratching my head too.

He said Ricoh shouldn't give us snippets of info, as we are to childish to deal with it. I Don't think he included himself

[Mikesul]

Thanks, Kenspo. I think many of us feared you had given up on the project. Don't let the rude complainers drive you away. Most of us understand that the messenger is not responsible if the message relayed turns out to be wrong through no fault of the messenger.

After Hoya's raping of Pentax, people need to understand, that the production line with Pentax, is down to a minimum. They have no chance to produce as much as other brands..yet! I asked if i could share this info today, they said it has been cleared higher up in the chain. So take it the way you want. I just want to share what i can, but if people start getting at me for the info, i dont gain anything by sharing, so no stress for me to not share anymore. Like it or not, but dont shoot the messenger! Now back to read about the FF specs!

---------- Post added 10-07-15 at 10:55 PM ----------



No, they wont!

[reh321]

The more I think about it, the less I understand how the refurbishment of 2 months of K-3 II production can delay the 24x36 camera's announcement by something like 5 months (from early October to late February).

Besides, two different (and contradictory) reasons brought forward by the same people (Ricoh Imaging Scandinavia through kenspo) in less than 3 weeks:

- on September 18th: " we have decided to enrich some functions and specifications furthermore to satisfy our customers. We are expecting different launching schedule from previous announcement considering the time we need to develop.""

- on October 7th: "It is the callback of all the K-3 IIs that is the reason for the delay. The production line can't handle both the callback and the production of the FF. The FF is ready and specs are finished."

sounds a bit fishy...

Sorry kenspo, I don't buy the messages you have been asked to deliver. Either of them.

A smart company will share as much engineering as they can amongst various products / lines. I've been expecting that much of the FF engineering would be based on the K3ii. In that context, the two statements are completely consistent. They found a basic problem in the K3ii which had been carried forward to the FF, so first they have to redo a bunch of K3ii cameras, and then they have to make some changes in the FF product. Perhaps the same people are involved in both, perhaps not, but in any case I can see how this scenario could cause major issues for a company as relatively small as Pentax is today.

BTW - this is one of the reasons I'm hoping that Pentax will keep the Q-family alive and progressing, even though I have one now and might not buy another one for a number of years; I believe they need to keep their MILC technology going, just in case MILC suddenly balloons in importance in the APS-C and FF worlds.

[DennisH]

The more I think about it, the less I understand how the refurbishment of 2 months of K-3 II production can delay the 24x36 camera's announcement by something like 5 months (from early October to late February).

Maybe a small point, but I was under the impression that there would be an official announcement of some kind in October with availability "in late 2015." If that meant November or December, a delay until February (which might not be right either) is only a couple months. And despite one member's apparent intimate knowledge of Pentax's production capacity and the logistics of the K-3ii fix, we really don't know how long it should take.

However, I have no explanation for the "We're adding new features" line, other than adding something as long as there's a delay anyway.

[pinholecam]

For all its worth, I asked the local distro here for information on the FF and I got about the same reasons as what Kenspo gave.
So as far as what info is available and able to be disclosed right now, thats all we got.

Whats it got to do with anything anyway?
We know one fact - the camera is in Spring.
Blaming Kenspo or Ashahiman won't make the camera come out faster.

So lets be gracious about it.

[Mistral75]

A smart company will share as much engineering as they can amongst various products / lines. I've been expecting that much of the FF engineering would be based on the K3ii. In that context, the two statements are completely consistent. They found a basic problem in the K3ii which had been carried forward to the FF, so first they have to redo a bunch of K3ii cameras, and then they have to make some changes in the FF product. Perhaps the same people are involved in both, perhaps not, but in any case I can see how this scenario could cause major issues for a company as relatively small as Pentax is today.

(...).

But they had already found a solution and applied it to K-3 II after two months since the subsequent production was not affected. So, if one supposes that the basic problem in the K-3 II had been carried forward to the 24x36 camera, the only thing they had to do was to apply the same "fix" to the 24x36 camera as they had already done to K-3 II sometimes in June (on July 9th, date of Ricoh Imaging's press release, the problem was solved).

[NZ_Ross]

Much as I am thoroughly enjoying this thread, and the wide ranging analysis based on very sparse information, I am reminded of Occam's razor which states: other things being equal, simpler explanations are generally better than more complex ones

Have fun with all the theories (I certainly am), but remember Occam's razor sits at the core of scientific enquiry and method, and is also useful when thinking about the likelihood various conspiracy theories

[Kunzite]

The more I think about it, the less I understand how the refurbishment of 2 months of K-3 II production can delay the 24x36 camera's announcement by something like 5 months (from early October to late February).

Besides, two different (and contradictory) reasons brought forward by the same people (Ricoh Imaging Scandinavia through kenspo) in less than 3 weeks:

- on September 18th: " we have decided to enrich some functions and specifications furthermore to satisfy our customers. We are expecting different launching schedule from previous announcement considering the time we need to develop.""

- on October 7th: "It is the callback of all the K-3 IIs that is the reason for the delay. The production line can't handle both the callback and the production of the FF. The FF is ready and specs are finished."

sounds a bit fishy...

Sorry kenspo, I don't buy the messages you have been asked to deliver. Either of them.

Let's keep in mind that kenspo has connections AFAIK with Ricoh Imaging Europe, and probably not directly with R&D and product planning in Japan. Some things might be lost, added or altered on the way.

However, there is a scenario in which both seemingly contradictory reasons would be true. First, I would not assume a 5 month delay requirement; all that was needed was to miss some 'last chance' target for this year (perhaps in time for Holidays). We might be inclined to believe the delay would be as short as possible, but that's not necessarily true; the next 'best' target would be, IMO, CP+. It makes sense to wait a bit for this major show, even if you could make an announcement e.g. in December or January.

That was the marketing/sales reason. Now, what would you want your R&D to do if you had some extra time until the camera enters production? Perhaps... to "enrich some functions and specification"? Maybe some stuff which was initially left out because it couldn't be ready by the end of the year.

The above is, of course, purely speculative - and only meant to show how little we know. Probably the two "contradictory" reasons are both true, and both fragments of the entire thing.

[Mistral75]

Let's keep in mind that kenspo has connections AFAIK with Ricoh Imaging Europe, and probably not directly with R&D and product planning in Japan. Some things might be lost, added or altered on the way.

(...).

Indeed and I made a specific reference to Ricoh Imaging Scandinavia in my message.

(...)

However, there is a scenario in which both seemingly contradictory reasons would be true. First, I would not assume a 5 month delay requirement; all that was needed was to miss some 'last chance' target for this year (perhaps in time for Holidays). We might be inclined to believe the delay would be as short as possible, but that's not necessarily true; the next 'best' target would be, IMO, CP+. It makes sense to wait a bit for this major show, even if you could make an announcement e.g. in December or January.

(...).

That I can buy.

(...)

Now, what would you want your R&D to do if you had some extra time until the camera enters production? Perhaps... to "enrich some functions and specification"? Maybe some stuff which was initially left out because it couldn't be ready by the end of the year.

(...)

If so, you can't ask your ambassador to proclaim on October 7th that "The FF is ready and specs are finished.".

(...)

Probably the two "contradictory" reasons are both true, and both fragments of the entire thing.

(...)

There is an intrinsic contradiction between the statement of September 18th = we defer launching "considering the time we need to develop." and the statement of October 7th "The FF is ready and specs are finished."

[Nicolas06]

He said Ricoh shouldn't give us snippets of info, as we are to childish to deal with it. I Don't think he included himself

If you are from Ricoh and you see the reactions in the forums you must be very cautious. You'd not want to say the reality because people would not accept it. You'd want a nice story that show how great the brand is and what wonderfull things they did that made them late.

So if you are reading the reason Ricoh are giving, you take that with a grain of salt... You understand that the real reason is not that important and that they didn't necessarily said the reality. Anyway, the real information is not the reason they are late but that they are late and that they don't know yet exactly when they will be finished because they didn't commited on a date but on a vague period "Spring".

[Kunzite]

As I said, let's keep in mind that kenspo has connections in Europe. Which means we should not put too much weight on the exact meaning of individual words; nitpicking is a waste of time.

"FF ready and specs are finished" could be that they were ready to switch from pre-production to production. I really don't think Ricoh Japan meant it as "we won't do anything else until spring"; I sure hope they'll at least tweak it a bit, perhaps improve/add firmware features if not hardware ones.
Basic specs should not change, so in a way they're "finished".

[Daikokuya]

As I said, let's keep in mind that kenspo has connections in Europe.

Let me add one thing: those connections don't always prove the correctness of information. Does Tokyo really talk about the critical inside information in advance to a branch? No offense, but I think that the recent blunder surrounding Asahiman is a sign that Tokyo is very tight on information control. Branch people may have heard about some "rumor" in the house, but It isn't necessarily what Tokyo really intends.

[jpzk]

Thanks, Kenspo. I think many of us feared you had given up on the project. Don't let the rude complainers drive you away. Most of us understand that the messenger is not responsible if the message relayed turns out to be wrong through no fault of the messenger.

I agree: Don't kill the messenger!

[mee]

I know the specs, but if i share now, they will come from Japan to hunt me down!!! lol

I realize you can't share specs.. but are YOU impressed with the specs?

[jatrax]

As I said, let's keep in mind that kenspo has connections in Europe. Which means we should not put too much weight on the exact meaning of individual words; nitpicking is a waste of time.

And to add to that the message received here started in Japanese, was translated to a different language for Ricoh Europe (or Scandinavia with possibly another translation between people there) then translated again into English at some point. Even if the message was quite clear, and not intentionally vague, it is easy for me to see how it might have mutated a bit along the way.

Translations work fine until people start hyper-analyzing the nuances of individual words. At that point gross misunderstandings become possible with no malice involved.