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10-08-2015, 02:43 AM   #916
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I think all of this stewing is somewhat pointless. What we know is that Ricoh couldn't hit their initial release date. Probably the idea of an October release date was to optomistic. Maybe their were flaws with the design that were discovered late in the process. Maybe they decided at the last minute to change components as something like astro tracer or SR wasn't working as designed. I doubt the K3 callback made a huge difference though.

In the end, it makes very little difference. If you need full frame now (yesterday) then get a non-Pentax full frame. If you can afford to wait till spring, there is no doubt that it is coming.

I am actually more concerned by the delay in the release of the 70-200. That just feels really odd. I don't remember a lens being released -- at least pre-production copies getting out -- and then the lid being slammed down on it for multiple months. But certainly that could impact when they will release the full frame camera. They really need to have these full frame lenses on the street prior or, at least at the same time as the full frame camera's release.

10-08-2015, 03:00 AM - 1 Like   #917
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom S. Quote
I suspect you meant to ask if I was sure Ricoh couldn't find the required labor, and I'll answer that question: Yes, I'm sure. Putting cameras together isn't necessarily rocket science, but it does require some skill and training. A company would be either desperate or dumb to spend the resources training new workers, have them work for a couple months and then get rid of them. Depending on the country, there may also be additional costs such as unemployment insurance, etc. As a side note, new workers are also more prone to make errors. Would it make any sense to hire workers who were naturally prone to make mistakes, to correct mistakes that had already been made?
Tom, I would like to reinforce your point by mentioning what is known (in IT, at least) as Brooks' Law: "adding manpower to a late project will only make it later" (made in a very interesting book titled "The Mythical Man Month", which is supposedly about how 9 women can't make a baby in one month, despite what managers say). This was confirmed over and over again. This was proven to be true even when the new people are highly trained, but unfamiliar with that specific product.
10-08-2015, 03:01 AM   #918
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think all of this stewing is somewhat pointless. What we know is that Ricoh couldn't hit their initial release date. Probably the idea of an October release date was to optomistic. Maybe their were flaws with the design that were discovered late in the process. Maybe they decided at the last minute to change components as something like astro tracer or SR wasn't working as designed. I doubt the K3 callback made a huge difference though.

In the end, it makes very little difference. If you need full frame now (yesterday) then get a non-Pentax full frame. If you can afford to wait till spring, there is no doubt that it is coming.

I am actually more concerned by the delay in the release of the 70-200. That just feels really odd. I don't remember a lens being released -- at least pre-production copies getting out -- and then the lid being slammed down on it for multiple months. But certainly that could impact when they will release the full frame camera. They really need to have these full frame lenses on the street prior or, at least at the same time as the full frame camera's release.
I can agree on most parts.
And also the timeframe for the 70-200 would not bother me. Some changes and optimisations to early available prototypes have been done to other Pentax lenses too, like the 60-250 f4.https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/41788-da-60-250-not...ts-coming.html
And I think that there is agreement that the results are more then convincing.
10-08-2015, 05:15 AM   #919
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
(...)
Regarding the plausibility of the timeframe in connection to the second explanation, why not consider that Ricoh might see just certain temporal benchmarks (or better called fixed key dates) to be suited best for presentation of new products. One might have been fall, before Xmas season, another one spring, aiming at big industrial venues, like it seems to be with CP+.(...)
I agree with you as I agreed with Kunzite who said more or less the same thing before you:
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
(...)

I would not assume a 5 month delay requirement; all that was needed was to miss some 'last chance' target for this year (perhaps in time for Holidays). We might be inclined to believe the delay would be as short as possible, but that's not necessarily true; the next 'best' target would be, IMO, CP+. It makes sense to wait a bit for this major show, even if you could make an announcement e.g. in December or January.

(...)

QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
(...)
I definitely don't see any reason for any conspiracy here.
Nor do I .

10-08-2015, 05:35 AM   #920
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
I agree with you as I agreed with Kunzite who said more or less the same thing before you:





Nor do I .
Oh, right. He posted it while I was writing (or somewhere where I missed it). But good to have so much agreement here lately ;-)

Last edited by MMVIII; 10-08-2015 at 06:18 AM.
10-08-2015, 06:15 AM   #921
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3 people agreeing with each other, here on Pentaxforums - and it's not that PentaxIsDoomed. Weird.
10-08-2015, 06:20 AM   #922
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
3 people agreeing with each other, here on Pentaxforums - and it's not that PentaxIsDoomed. Weird.
Refreshing, isn't it?
10-08-2015, 06:36 AM   #923
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
(...)

I am actually more concerned by the delay in the release of the 70-200. That just feels really odd. I don't remember a lens being released -- at least pre-production copies getting out -- and then the lid being slammed down on it for multiple months. But certainly that could impact when they will release the full frame camera. They really need to have these full frame lenses on the street prior or, at least at the same time as the full frame camera's release.
As MMVIII already pointed out, the same happened with DA* 60-250mm f/4, showcased at PMA 2008 (January 2008), officially launched at Photokina 2008 (September 2008), then withdrawn (the mechanical and optical quality of the pre-series samples shown at the 'Salon de la Photo' in Paris in November 2008 was clearly poor) and eventually commercialised in mid-April 2009.

I am copying below what I wrote on this topic in August 2010 on another forum. It's in French but Google is your friend .
QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75:
L'objectif concerné était le DA* 60-250 mm f/4. Des exemplaires de préséries avaient été mis à la disposition des visiteurs lors de la Photokina en septembre 2008, du salon de la photo à Paris et d'autres manifestations analogues. A chaque fois les utilisateurs avaient mis en avant des défauts de qualité (sévères).

On a compris après coup qu'il s'agissait vraisemblablement de problèmes de changement de fournisseurs et donc de matériaux entre les prototypes, fabriqués au Japon à partir de composants locaux, et les pré-séries fabriquées au Vietnam (comme tous les objectifs Pentax maintenant) avec des approvisionnements différents.

Pentax a stoppé le lancement de l'objectif, retravaillé la conception (et peut-être aussi les approvisionnements) et l'objectif a finalement été mis sur le marché à la mi-avril 2009, plus de 6 mois après les premiers retours négatifs.


10-08-2015, 06:43 AM   #924
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And if the 70-200 turns out to be as good as the 60-250, 5 years from now, who is going to remember?
10-08-2015, 08:17 AM   #925
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Spoke to Pentax today. It is the callback of all the K-3 II's that is the reason for the delay. The production line can't handle both the callback and the production of the FF. The FF is ready and specs are finished. Will start production as soon as the K-3 II issue is fixed.
Thank you for your helpful informations, but I think that source of that information is not honest to you.
That sounds like Ricoh stopped K3II production for at least a whole month but based on serial numbers I can currently find in stores it can't be true.
New serials are everywhere and if they are in sequence (one by one without gaps) there can't be any problems with K3II production.
I suspect that Ricoh is using the issue with K3II to cover something bigger probably an issue with DFA70-200, or maybe even an issue with FF camera.

Btw, have you received your "fixed" version of DFA70-200 yet?

p.s. I am not impatient and I will buy that FF camera whenever it will be released, but if they are trying to give us selective information at least they should be consistent with other informations that could be independently checked and compared.
10-08-2015, 08:27 AM   #926
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
3 people agreeing with each other, here on Pentaxforums - and it's not that PentaxIsDoomed. Weird.
Must be connected to the planetary alignment this morning.
10-08-2015, 08:42 AM   #927
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Specs?

View finder 0.75x
24 MP
Sensor with SR and Pixel Shift
Between 6 and 7 FPS.
Weight about 850g
Official price 1800$
10-08-2015, 08:51 AM   #928
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QuoteOriginally posted by donesteban Quote
Specs?

View finder 0.75x
24 MP
Sensor with SR and Pixel Shift
Between 6 and 7 FPS.
Weight about 850g
Official price 1800$
old info...
10-08-2015, 10:25 AM   #929
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Hey, that's fresh info. Right off my new crital ball, made of the front lenses of old, broken Asahi fiseyes
10-08-2015, 01:18 PM   #930
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
In the end, it makes very little difference. If you need full frame now (yesterday) then get a non-Pentax full frame. If you can afford to wait till spring, there is no doubt that it is coming.
A Sony A7R (original) is probably selling for dirt-cheap these days, yet will hold its resale value decently for at least another 6-12 months if you buy used and get a great deal. For anyone with a large staple of Pentax lenses who wants to get their hands on a full-frame sensor, hawk Ebay for a used A7R and Pentax-to-FE adapter, play around with your Pentax FF lenses, and see what happens in ~6 months.

=Matt=
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