Pentax FF spring 2016

mecrox · 09-22-2015, 03:23 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

Pixel shift is a gimmick at this point. Yes, it does allow for better product photography, but it is not something that easily allows for real world shots. It has been demonstrated multiple times that using it in landscape shots where there is light wind will produce image with lots of artifacts, albeit with extra detail in the parts of the image that don't move. Waterfall photos with it don't look good. It is useless for hand held photos.

As to the reason for the delay, it is hard to say, isn't it? Either there was hardware issue that wasn't solvable in the time they had, a software problem, some feature that they wanted to be there that wasn't there, the lenses weren't done, or maybe they want the video on this camera to be decent and it isn't yet. Whatever the case, there has been a delay.

People aren't blaming the delay on the 42 megapixel sensor, they are just saying that if Pentax does use the newest sensor out there, then they would be more willing to wait on said full frame camera, whereas, they would be less willing to do so if it were coming out with the 24 megapixel sensor in the D610.

We simply do not know the reason for any delay. I've even seen it suggested that the reason may be because Pentax-made adapters for 645 and old 67 lenses aren't ready yet. The real reason could be almost anything, not even technical but financial or organizational. For example, Ricoh could be waiting to have a new service network fully in place before launching something heavily dependent on "pro" users, if that turns out to be the case. I think one can say that we are mostly all looking backwards over sensors. The D610 and D810 lines may well be refreshed with newer sensors during 2016, as may the two mainstays of the Canon range, the 5D Mk III and the 6D. Any Pentax FF camera which came out with a sensor which has been out there for two years or more already would be considered old hat and gone by the end of 2016, which means that Pentax would probably have to drop the price of their new flagship camera faster and more deeply than they'd ever want. So a new-gen sensor is kind of unavoidable whatever the mpx.

kenspo · 09-22-2015, 03:39 AM - **3 Likes**

I have a meeting with Ricoh Scandinavia tomorrow. Will try to dig out some info then.

**NZ_Ross** · 09-22-2015, 03:48 AM

Originally posted by kenspo

I have a meeting with Ricoh Scandinavia tomorrow. Will try to dig out some info then.

Great, I will look forward to the report back from you

Kunzite · 09-22-2015, 04:04 AM

Originally posted by kenspo

I have a meeting with Ricoh Scandinavia tomorrow. Will try to dig out some info then.

Please do so, and share with us as much as you can. Your work here is appreciated

D1N0 · 09-22-2015, 04:16 AM

Originally posted by Uluru

The variable that postpones launch is not the sensor. Everyone talks about boring sensors, but they are not the issue.
If Pentax implements pixel shift, 36MP is already an overkill, and an excuse that they wait for 42 MP is nonsense.
But Ricoh is buying time and does crazy stunts to develop more lenses. More lenses. And more lenses And nothing but lenses.
If it were the sensor, the FF would have been launched in December. But for the sake on lenses, sometime in .. spring.

The 42mp is not really about the megapixels, but about speed. The megapixel number is related to a number that makes it easier to do 4k video in camera.

hopey · 09-22-2015, 04:22 AM - **1 Like**

According to Pentaxeros admin, the reason of the delay is lack of production capacity created because of the K3II recall (cameras with some kind of switch off problem)

rawr · 09-22-2015, 05:03 AM

Originally posted by hopey

the reason of the delay is lack of production capacity

If accurate, that would mean they already have a FF design that is finished and ready for production, and Pentax are just waiting for the revised K-3II backlog to get out of the way. So that's kind of positive news. The FF pie is prepared, and ready to bake.

Mistral75 · 09-22-2015, 05:31 AM

Originally posted by kenspo

Ricoh is after buying RED..might be a connection here. But i can't confirm, cause no one wants to talk about this bit. So this info is from others..

This is an old piece of news

.

mecrox · 09-22-2015, 06:14 AM

Originally posted by rawr

If accurate, that would mean they already have a FF design that is finished and ready for production, and Pentax are just waiting for the revised K-3II backlog to get out of the way. So that's kind of positive news. The FF pie is prepared, and ready to bake.

A pie ready to bake is not what they've apparently said, though, quoting information given to Kenspo earlier: "No, we are on schedule. But we have decided to enrich some functions and specifications furthermore to satisfy our customers. We are expecting different launching schedule from previous announcement considering the time we need to develop." If so, the pie cannot be ready since more prep time is called for. Maybe they have rolled out the pastry but the apples aren't ripe, lol.

IchabodCrane · 09-22-2015, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by mecrox

A pie ready to bake is not what they've apparently said, though, quoting information given to Kenspo earlier: "No, we are on schedule. But we have decided to enrich some functions and specifications furthermore to satisfy our customers. We are expecting different launching schedule from previous announcement considering the time we need to develop." If so, the pie cannot be ready since more prep time is called for. Maybe they have rolled out the pastry but the apples aren't ripe, lol.

Kenspo has been quite faithful in passing along information that he's allow to and we thank him for that. However, I'm not convinced Ricoh is being totally up front with him on some things.

rawr · 09-22-2015, 06:37 AM

Originally posted by mecrox

'we have decided to enrich some functions and specifications furthermore' ... Maybe they have rolled out the pastry but the apples aren't ripe, lol.

Hmmm. It seems they revised the recipe for the first batch. Extra herbs and spices were added, plus some 'special sauce'. A gourmet dish is coming our way.

zmohie · 09-22-2015, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by Uluru

The variable that postpones launch is not the sensor. Everyone talks about boring sensors, but they are not the issue.
If Pentax implements pixel shift, 36MP is already an overkill, and an excuse that they wait for 42 MP is nonsense.
But Ricoh is buying time and does crazy stunts to develop more lenses. More lenses. And more lenses And nothing but lenses.
If it were the sensor, the FF would have been launched in December. But for the sake on lenses, sometime in .. spring.

+1
first they delayed 70-200 and now k1.
it seems they planned to come with many lenses at the launch time or refresh some.

**Belnan** · 09-22-2015, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by zmohie

+1
first they delayed 70-200 and now k1.
it seems they planned to come with many lenses at the launch time or refresh some.

I think you are correct, the DFA* 24-70, DFA* 70-200 and wide angle zoom were not ready. Therefor no FF.

AOCO · 09-22-2015, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by Uluru

The variable that postpones launch is not the sensor. Everyone talks about boring sensors, but they are not the issue.
If Pentax implements pixel shift, 36MP is already an overkill, and an excuse that they wait for 42 MP is nonsense.
But Ricoh is buying time and does crazy stunts to develop more lenses. More lenses. And more lenses And nothing but lenses.
If it were the sensor, the FF would have been launched in December. But for the sake on lenses, sometime in .. spring.

It's not you or me to decide if the 42Mpix sensor is the issue or not.

It's the market and the companies who decide. Do we need a 51MP sensor ? or a 120MP as Canon just annouce it ? ( Based on Canon plans high-res future with 120MP DSLR and 8K Cinema EOS in development: Digital Photography Review )
No certainly not, but it 's the way it is, so if Canon make 51MP DLSR the others must stick with it.
If Ricoh don't follow, it will be like the FF, everybody tells we don't need a FF and in the same time they say if Ricoh don't have a FF they're out of the race.
Don't you think ?

Mattox · 09-22-2015, 09:10 AM

100mp is just bloody outrageous. 42 is already pushing it. Guys, if your photos are perfectly in focus in the first place that's what counts. The FF is coming and it will be great. They don't need to follow suit with canon, they just need the FF to be pumped with a decent size sensor, nothing outrageous and again, as so many have said, spot on AF, something that Pentax has fallen behind on in the past. Let's think too about lenses. Now that's important. Our old fa's ecc will do great but, for me what is equally important is a great line up of solid lenses. Without them all the other technology in the world won't make a diff. This is probably slowed the production line for FF down a bit I'd say. They are still working on the FF lenses. Something that Nikon, for example, weren't that prepared for when they released their first FF I heard

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09-22-2015, 03:23 AM	#496
mecrox Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by Rondec Pixel shift is a gimmick at this point. Yes, it does allow for better product photography, but it is not something that easily allows for real world shots. It has been demonstrated multiple times that using it in landscape shots where there is light wind will produce image with lots of artifacts, albeit with extra detail in the parts of the image that don't move. Waterfall photos with it don't look good. It is useless for hand held photos. As to the reason for the delay, it is hard to say, isn't it? Either there was hardware issue that wasn't solvable in the time they had, a software problem, some feature that they wanted to be there that wasn't there, the lenses weren't done, or maybe they want the video on this camera to be decent and it isn't yet. Whatever the case, there has been a delay. People aren't blaming the delay on the 42 megapixel sensor, they are just saying that if Pentax does use the newest sensor out there, then they would be more willing to wait on said full frame camera, whereas, they would be less willing to do so if it were coming out with the 24 megapixel sensor in the D610. We simply do not know the reason for any delay. I've even seen it suggested that the reason may be because Pentax-made adapters for 645 and old 67 lenses aren't ready yet. The real reason could be almost anything, not even technical but financial or organizational. For example, Ricoh could be waiting to have a new service network fully in place before launching something heavily dependent on "pro" users, if that turns out to be the case. I think one can say that we are mostly all looking backwards over sensors. The D610 and D810 lines may well be refreshed with newer sensors during 2016, as may the two mainstays of the Canon range, the 5D Mk III and the 6D. Any Pentax FF camera which came out with a sensor which has been out there for two years or more already would be considered old hat and gone by the end of 2016, which means that Pentax would probably have to drop the price of their new flagship camera faster and more deeply than they'd ever want. So a new-gen sensor is kind of unavoidable whatever the mpx.

09-22-2015, 03:39 AM - 3 Likes	#497
kenspo Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Oslo Posts: 2,207	I have a meeting with Ricoh Scandinavia tomorrow. Will try to dig out some info then.

09-22-2015, 03:48 AM	#498
NZ_Ross Kiwi Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Timaru Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,225	Originally posted by kenspo I have a meeting with Ricoh Scandinavia tomorrow. Will try to dig out some info then. Great, I will look forward to the report back from you

09-22-2015, 04:04 AM	#499
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by kenspo I have a meeting with Ricoh Scandinavia tomorrow. Will try to dig out some info then. Please do so, and share with us as much as you can. Your work here is appreciated

09-22-2015, 04:16 AM	#500
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Originally posted by Uluru The variable that postpones launch is not the sensor. Everyone talks about boring sensors, but they are not the issue. If Pentax implements pixel shift, 36MP is already an overkill, and an excuse that they wait for 42 MP is nonsense. But Ricoh is buying time and does crazy stunts to develop more lenses. More lenses. And more lenses And nothing but lenses. If it were the sensor, the FF would have been launched in December. But for the sake on lenses, sometime in .. spring. The 42mp is not really about the megapixels, but about speed. The megapixel number is related to a number that makes it easier to do 4k video in camera.

09-22-2015, 04:22 AM - 1 Like	#501
hopey Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bizkaia, Basque Country Posts: 39	According to Pentaxeros admin, the reason of the delay is lack of production capacity created because of the K3II recall (cameras with some kind of switch off problem)

09-22-2015, 05:03 AM	#502
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by hopey the reason of the delay is lack of production capacity If accurate, that would mean they already have a FF design that is finished and ready for production, and Pentax are just waiting for the revised K-3II backlog to get out of the way. So that's kind of positive news. The FF pie is prepared, and ready to bake.

09-22-2015, 05:31 AM	#503
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by kenspo Ricoh is after buying RED..might be a connection here. But i can't confirm, cause no one wants to talk about this bit. So this info is from others.. This is an old piece of news .

09-22-2015, 06:14 AM	#504
mecrox Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by rawr If accurate, that would mean they already have a FF design that is finished and ready for production, and Pentax are just waiting for the revised K-3II backlog to get out of the way. So that's kind of positive news. The FF pie is prepared, and ready to bake. A pie ready to bake is not what they've apparently said, though, quoting information given to Kenspo earlier: "No, we are on schedule. But we have decided to enrich some functions and specifications furthermore to satisfy our customers. We are expecting different launching schedule from previous announcement considering the time we need to develop." If so, the pie cannot be ready since more prep time is called for. Maybe they have rolled out the pastry but the apples aren't ripe, lol.

09-22-2015, 06:30 AM	#505
IchabodCrane Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,728	Originally posted by mecrox A pie ready to bake is not what they've apparently said, though, quoting information given to Kenspo earlier: "No, we are on schedule. But we have decided to enrich some functions and specifications furthermore to satisfy our customers. We are expecting different launching schedule from previous announcement considering the time we need to develop." If so, the pie cannot be ready since more prep time is called for. Maybe they have rolled out the pastry but the apples aren't ripe, lol. Kenspo has been quite faithful in passing along information that he's allow to and we thank him for that. However, I'm not convinced Ricoh is being totally up front with him on some things.

09-22-2015, 06:37 AM	#506
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by mecrox 'we have decided to enrich some functions and specifications furthermore' ... Maybe they have rolled out the pastry but the apples aren't ripe, lol. Hmmm. It seems they revised the recipe for the first batch. Extra herbs and spices were added, plus some 'special sauce'. A gourmet dish is coming our way.

09-22-2015, 07:53 AM	#507
zmohie Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: egypt Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 435	Originally posted by Uluru The variable that postpones launch is not the sensor. Everyone talks about boring sensors, but they are not the issue. If Pentax implements pixel shift, 36MP is already an overkill, and an excuse that they wait for 42 MP is nonsense. But Ricoh is buying time and does crazy stunts to develop more lenses. More lenses. And more lenses And nothing but lenses. If it were the sensor, the FF would have been launched in December. But for the sake on lenses, sometime in .. spring. +1 first they delayed 70-200 and now k1. it seems they planned to come with many lenses at the launch time or refresh some.

09-22-2015, 08:56 AM	#508
Belnan Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Nova Scotia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,090	Originally posted by zmohie +1 first they delayed 70-200 and now k1. it seems they planned to come with many lenses at the launch time or refresh some. I think you are correct, the DFA* 24-70, DFA* 70-200 and wide angle zoom were not ready. Therefor no FF.

09-22-2015, 08:56 AM	#509
AOCO Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Paris Posts: 42	Originally posted by Uluru The variable that postpones launch is not the sensor. Everyone talks about boring sensors, but they are not the issue. If Pentax implements pixel shift, 36MP is already an overkill, and an excuse that they wait for 42 MP is nonsense. But Ricoh is buying time and does crazy stunts to develop more lenses. More lenses. And more lenses And nothing but lenses. If it were the sensor, the FF would have been launched in December. But for the sake on lenses, sometime in .. spring. It's not you or me to decide if the 42Mpix sensor is the issue or not. It's the market and the companies who decide. Do we need a 51MP sensor ? or a 120MP as Canon just annouce it ? ( Based on Canon plans high-res future with 120MP DSLR and 8K Cinema EOS in development: Digital Photography Review ) No certainly not, but it 's the way it is, so if Canon make 51MP DLSR the others must stick with it. If Ricoh don't follow, it will be like the FF, everybody tells we don't need a FF and in the same time they say if Ricoh don't have a FF they're out of the race. Don't you think ?

09-22-2015, 09:10 AM	#510
Mattox Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 292	100mp is just bloody outrageous. 42 is already pushing it. Guys, if your photos are perfectly in focus in the first place that's what counts. The FF is coming and it will be great. They don't need to follow suit with canon, they just need the FF to be pumped with a decent size sensor, nothing outrageous and again, as so many have said, spot on AF, something that Pentax has fallen behind on in the past. Let's think too about lenses. Now that's important. Our old fa's ecc will do great but, for me what is equally important is a great line up of solid lenses. Without them all the other technology in the world won't make a diff. This is probably slowed the production line for FF down a bit I'd say. They are still working on the FF lenses. Something that Nikon, for example, weren't that prepared for when they released their first FF I heard