[JPT]

I think if we accept that price drops are a reflection of products that are unattractive to the market, we also have to accept that when models effectively get more expensive, that's a reflection of their popularity. It's interesting that Ricoh is raising the price of almost everything in the 645 range by 10% in Japan (effective Nov), including the camera itself, which will go up from 800,000 yen to 900,000 yen. And also interesting that the new GR II is more expensive than the outgoing model. Ricoh killed the Coolpix A with aggressive and now they are clear to raise the price again. These two products are unique in the market.

Unfortunately, Pentax DSLRs do not have enough unique features to make up for Canon and Nikon's dominance. That's why I think Ricoh will be looking to introduce technologies that set K-mount apart, and hold prices where they want them to be. The problem is stopping the discounts will upset people just as much as the current discounting, so we'll hear more doom-laden grumbling about that too.

[RonHendriks1966]

Ron, K-30 is 3 1/2 year old unsaleable inventory. It is Hoya product. K-S1 is still selling in retail channels and was likely a much smaller run since it was an intentional experiment, not a main-line product.

But whatever. You are a successful professional women's sports photographer. I'm a hobbyist who should be doing my real job. So you would know better.

The K-30 was stil available this year. To much production and left over inventory. Currently it looks like the K-50 is the best selling camera for Pentax, looking at ranks at Amazon and one large internet shop overhere.

I took a break from sports photography this year.

[Kunzite]

Well, when companies have a lot of "fat" such as Canon and Nikon, they can downsize a lot before they have to shutdown their operations.
If Pentax would have to downsize, I don't know what would be the effect on them.

But why would they downsize? Hoya did a great job at that...

[Mistral75]

Pentax is profitable and growing. (...)

Ricoh Imaging are indeed stated as profitable in their parent company's reports but growing???

[Franc]

I took a break from sports photography this year.

you took a break from photography period and became very negative

[biz-engineer]

But why would they downsize? Hoya did a great job at that...

Pentax do not have to downsize because they are the only camera company not seeing their sales drop.
The DSLR market is in free fall, but not Pentax, thanks to the K-3II that sells like crazy, thanks to pixel shift that Canon and Nikon don't have.

---------- Post added 30-09-15 at 18:36 ----------

Ricoh Imaging are indeed stated as profitable in their parent company's reports but growing???

Yes, Pentax are growing internally, we haven't see the results yet, but when they'll in 2016 it will a big bang: Pentax FF, the world first and unparalleled FF DSLR having pixel shift.

[jatrax]

thanks to the K-3II that sells like crazy,

Wait, that can't be right??? Someone posted just a page or so ago that the k-3II was a complete failure and sales were dismal.
Now, I am really confused. I thought Pentax was Dooomed and now you say the k-3II is selling like crazy and they are not Dooomed? My brain hurts.....................

[Kunzite]

I think there might be some sarcasm in there...
In any case, Ricoh recently invested in increasing the production capacity of "cameras, etc.", they struggled (maybe still are) to re-hire the R&D personnel lost under Hoya - why would they downsize?

[RonHendriks1966]

you took a break from photography period and became very negative

I do see people looking at my comments as negative, but for me they are very realistic. I won a botte of wine on a bet that Pentax wouldn't bring a fullframe this year (at photokina) and you can think of that being a negative attitude.......But for me that was a realistic one. I had enough contact with reps of Ricoh Imaging to make my mind up that they have (from my perspective) no clue of what they are doing. So I withdraw my personal investment, since I don't want to hang that investment up on people I don't see doing their job adequate. Having the break has a few things. No money to earne in it, even in our national news site there are some free images now and for myself I have enough images.

I see Pentax selling less and less gear over the past two years. That is not negative, but simply looking at the market and where it is going.

[D1N0]

Ok Ron You are not being negative and there is a Photokina this year.

[Class A]

I won a botte of wine on a bet that Pentax wouldn't bring a fullframe this year (at photokina)

Well, that was a safe bet, as there is no Photokina in 2015.

I had enough contact with reps of Ricoh Imaging to make my mind up that they have (from my perspective) no clue of what they are doing.

I like that you have added "from my perspective".
Perhaps another person would judge the behaviour of the Ricoh representatives as appropriate or even smart?
Perhaps you had unrealistic expectations?

So I withdraw my personal investment, since I don't want to hang that investment up on people I don't see doing their job adequate.

That's completely fine, but may I ask why you don't move on?
Why are you still engaging at PF, dampening the mood for others?
Do you want to save other people from falling victim to Ricoh?
With all due respect, I don't think your experience and the information available to you justify warning other people from investing into Pentax/Ricoh.
For some photographers Pentax cameras are a perfect choice and there is neither a need to persuade them to leave Pentax as well, nor any point in sharing one's disillusionment about Ricoh with them.

I see Pentax selling less and less gear over the past two years. That is not negative, but simply looking at the market and where it is going.

You said yourself that you don't have access to the sales numbers. How can you then "see" Pentax selling less and less gear?
And again, with all due respect, you are not in a position to judge where the market will be going. If you are privy to any information that would allow a confident prediction of the demise of Pentax, please share it with us. If you are just pessimistic yourself, please don't imply that anyone not sharing this pessimism does not have a realistic viewpoint.

[RonHendriks1966]

I made the bet at photokina last year.


Still own my yellow brick.


Anyone is allowed to have their own opinions. Realistic or Dreaming, no problem.

[biz-engineer]

I do see people looking at my comments as negative, but for me they are very realistic. I won a botte of wine on a bet that Pentax wouldn't bring a fullframe this year (at photokina) and you can think of that being a negative attitude.......But for me that was a realistic one. I had enough contact with reps of Ricoh Imaging to make my mind up that they have (from my perspective) no clue of what they are doing. So I withdraw my personal investment, since I don't want to hang that investment up on people I don't see doing their job adequate. Having the break has a few things. No money to earne in it, even in our national news site there are some free images now and for myself I have enough images.

Well, I just observed that when I stared with Pentax I bought the camera in a camera store, I did not have any Pentax mount lens, I tried the camera, I looked at the features, and I compared to other camera bodies in the same shop, I purchased the camera and I was impressed by the results. But then, year after year I saw that Pentax slowly disappeared from shops, so I continued to by online. 3 years ago here in Austria, the shops were still having a few Pentax gear in a corner of their shop, then there was only the second hand Pentax gear over there, and now there is not Pentax gear at all. I can see that Pentax engineer are trying to innovate on features that cost nothing and still may bring benefits to users (IBIS, OAA simulator, Pixel shift), technically, that's smart. Look at Canon and Nikon, their cameras are actually fairly basic and bigger DSLR body than Pentax recent DSLR bodies, but Canon and Nikon have a size such that they offer better customer service, representation in most if not all camera shops, they are filling all the gaps in terms of lenses and APSC and FF bodies.

Now, what to do? I'm not sure. I sold what I did not use. Now I have what I need in APSC, which has a usage value. Regarding full frame, Pentax are not clear, I can't measure the risk to buy more K mount product and then being screw-up in case Pentax would not survive. I also realized that camera bodies lose value fairly fast, and lenses have longer life time. So, I'd be ready to spend more on the lenses and spend less on the body, and that's exactly what Nikon are offering with their entry level FF. I guess Pentax are going to deliver a great FF camera at a premium price, but I prefer to invest in good glass and have less mega pixels, because 20 or 20Mpixels on FF is plenty sharp for printing. What I learned from APSC is that I spent more than I should by buying cheaper lenses first, so since I know what I want, I'll buy a complete system in one shot (lenses and body). With Pentax I cannot currently select a FF system set because they are going to release one product at a time. If I look at Nikon or Canon I can built the setup that I want in one shot (no need to wait three year to add a new lens). So, now, I wait and see until I want to buy a FF system, if at that time Pentax does not have a full system to select from, I won't buy a Pentax.

[bxf]

"Funny" how a delay in FF release translates into such gloom and doom.

Personally, I'd be pleased with a better APS-C. If Ricoh can do this in addition to creating an impressive FF, so much the better.

In any event, given the stagnant state of the market in general, I don't see the reason for such pessimism being directed specifically at Pentax.

[biz-engineer]

"Funny" how a delay in FF release translates into such gloom and doom.

My position is not related to the delay, it is related to the amount of money for a full frame system vs APSC.
I see the FF spending with a longer time frame, and that's way I wouldn't want to select the wrong brand.
In the meantime, it cost nothing to use and enjoy what I have: K-3 + bunch of lenses.

---------- Post added 30-09-15 at 20:11 ----------

In any event, given the stagnant state of the market in general, I don't see the reason for such pessimism being directed specifically at Pentax.

Actually, I don't think it is the right time to buy a full frame camera. I expect some innovation, changes happening next year, either in terms of technology or prices.