[Kunzite]

I agree, numbers don't have to match exactly; besides, they (hopefully) might decide to make a few changes, and not launch exactly the same product they have ready now.
And don't forget about CP+.

[Mattox]

I know the specs, but if i share now, they will come from Japan to hunt me down!!! lol

Thanks kenspo for the reliable info. This makes some sense i suppose. Appreciate your time for keeping us updated. Always greatly appreciated by the PF members (apart from Uluru)....who I think by the way needs to buy a canon. Hahahaha

[reh321]

I know the specs, but if i share now, they will come from Japan to hunt me down!!! lol

Some guy with lots of tattoos will cut your pinkie finger off.

More likely, his trigger fingers.

[Tom S.]

Are you sure they didn't have started a new batch they couldn't delay?
Did you take into account the time lost to reconfigure the line?
Are you sure that you need the same time to do a normal assembly or to manage a recall? Maybe the line is not optimized for that and it take more time?
Are we sure that it is worth to deliver as soon as possible if Ricoh can't target Christmass period ? The lowest sales are typically between january and march and it is when you get the most rebate because shops are trying to get rid of the unsold stock from Chrismass and people actual got their new toy just before. Maybe shops are not that willing to get more stock in such period and maybe having more money out for a longer period is a bad choice.

To me just because we have seen somewhere that apparently only the 2 first months of production is affected doesn't justify the wait is an over simplification that could indeed be true or completely wrong.

As if Ricoj said it all, for me they should not. We already prooved we are not mature enough for that. To me they should provide the minimum information to have us child stay more or less silent.

Having more than a passing knowledge of Japanese quick change assembly line processes, I'll stand by my original statement. In fact, I strongly suspect this repair work will not impact the current line process at all, only the labor needed to do the actual work. As for your last paragraph, I'm lost at what you're trying to convey as parts of it don't seem to make sense.

[normhead]

What we are saying is Pentax says that the delay is because of the K-3 II problem. DO we take that at face value... I suspect it's part of the issue. The thing I get from that is "we are still planning to produce the FF, keep saving your money." That's what pentax wants us to be thinking. SO from that perspective, analysizing product lines etc. is not important. Look at the message and what it says, not the semantics of the message. What it says is, "as soon as we can make it we will." Now if you choose to claim that they could make it sooner and are holding back, no problem , believe what you will, but it doesn't change the message I see. And the message I see makes me neither sceptical nor optimistic. All I know is how Pentax marketing wants me to think, and I'm quite happy to take that under advisement in thinking about these things.

[D1N0]

What we are saying is Pentax says that the delay is because of the K-3 II problem. DO we take that at face value... I suspect it's part of the issue. The thing I get from that is "we are still planning to produce the FF, keep saving your money." That's what pentax wants us to be thinking. SO from that perspective, analysizing product lines etc. is not important. Look at the message and what it says, not the semantics of the message. What it says is, "as soon as we can make it we will." Now if you choose to claim that they could make it sooner and are holding back, no problem , believe what you will, but it doesn't change the message I see. And the message I see makes me neither sceptical nor optimistic. All I know is how Pentax marketing wants me to think, and I'm quite happy to take that under advisement in thinking about these things.

It's what Ricoh told Kenspo. I don't know which Ricoh Kenspo talks to. Norway? Europe? Asahiman hasn't said anything about the K-3 II being the problem and I think he is closer to the source.

[Tom S.]

What we are saying is Pentax says that the delay is because of the K-3 II problem. DO we take that at face value... I suspect it's part of the issue. The thing I get from that is "we are still planning to produce the FF, keep saving your money." That's what pentax wants us to be thinking. SO from that perspective, analysizing product lines etc. is not important. Look at the message and what it says, not the semantics of the message. What it says is, "as soon as we can make it we will." Now if you choose to claim that they could make it sooner and are holding back, no problem , believe what you will, but it doesn't change the message I see. And the message I see makes me neither sceptical nor optimistic. All I know is how Pentax marketing wants me to think, and I'm quite happy to take that under advisement in thinking about these things.

Sorry, but I tend to work in absolutes, especially when absolutes are involved.

Kenspro stated:

Spoke to Pentax today. It is the callback of all the K-3 II's that is the reason for the delay. The production line can't handle both the callback and the production of the FF. The FF is ready and specs are finished. Will start production as soon as the K-3 II issue is fixed.

The absolute in this statement is that the K-3 II recall is backing up FF introduction until spring, whenever that may be. Speaking from a manufacturing standpoint, and the number of units involved, the time frame doesn't fit. Period.

Now absolutes aside, everyone can speculate what else may be adding to the delay, and that's OK. I would even go so far as to say it could be fun. My own speculation goes like this: given the problems with the K5 and K3 II, Ricoh wants to pad the launch date to ensure the product hits the 'official' release date and that the end product is as defect free as possible. I can readily accept this explanation as a plausible reason why the 'spring' date is so vague and why the time frame I referenced above doesn't work out to be real accurate.

And to all, please don't get the mistaken idea I'm disputing anything kenspro said. He can only pass on what he's told, and most of us appreciate that. I'm merely pointing out that the info he was provided has a timeline issue.

[Mattox]

I am just as excited as you guys about the FF release, but at the same time I am happy that I can squeeze out all the usage possible out of my k5 and soon to be obsolete 16-50 stars. I am still taking awesome shots and am having a ball with it too. So at the end of he day, let be happy that FF will come and in the meantime let's get every last sent out of out apsc gear before it gets packed away Ina box and forgotten about

[Class A]

I know the specs, but if i share now, they will come from Japan to hunt me down!!! lol

EDIT: The following probably doesn't make sense, if there never was an official explanation.

-----
I find it a bit odd that Ricoh apparently doesn't mind to be looking like a liar now.

We first got an official reason for the delay ("new features") and now Ricoh is happy for you to share the real reason ("production capacity")?

I'm not saying Ricoh's first explanation was right and you are wrong or vice versa, I'm just saying the contradiction is not a good look.
-----

EDIT: I just remembered that the first reason we were given was not an official bulletin from Ricoh, or was it? If the first reason ("more features") was just an unofficial rumour then everything is fine.

Perhaps Ricoh is sometimes handing out different information at different places to see where the leaks are?

[normhead]

I find it a bit odd that Ricoh apparently doesn't mind to be looking like a liar now.

We first got an official reason for the delay ("new features") and now Ricoh is happy for you to share the real reason ("production capacity")?

I'm not saying Ricoh's first explanation was right and you are wrong or vice versa, I'm just saying the contradiction is not a good look.

Pffft, RIcoh didn't say anything. We have no idea what Ricoh wants... except to sell us an FF camera. Kenspro is Kenspro, Asahiman is Asahiman, they both provide information that is not official Ricoh. It cannot even be assumed to be coming from official Ricoh sources. It's coming form people somewhere in the marketing chain, not Ricoh head office, not a Ricoh executive... get a grip folks.

[Class A]

... get a grip folks.

Your condescension is uncalled for.

First, it was an individual mistake, no need to appeal to multiple people.

Second, I wrote the first version after I got out of bed and realised my likely mistake -- still don't know where the first explanation came from -- on my own before having read your reply, while I took the first bite of my breakfast.

[Nicolas06]

Having more than a passing knowledge of Japanese quick change assembly line processes, I'll stand by my original statement. In fact, I strongly suspect this repair work will not impact the current line process at all, only the labor needed to do the actual work. As for your last paragraph, I'm lost at what you're trying to convey as parts of it don't seem to make sense.

Stupid to say but isn't the actual units made in philipines, not Japan? Also are you sure they can find the required labor? Also you speak general of Japan assembly lines. You mean for cameras? Consumer good in general? Vehicules? Then do you know Pentax/Ricoh and their own efficiancy for that? Are they bellow average? faster? slower?

Do you know exactly what the problem is? What the fix involve?

[NZ_Ross]

Just assimilating all this new information from Kenspro this morning.

With regard to the K3II recall and impact on the Pentax FF - if the K3II issue required circuit board or component redesign and update for the fix, then it is reasonable to assume that the Pentax FF might have been using the same design (or very similar) in the same component areas.

If that assumption is valid, then once Ricoh had completed the design updating, testing and replacement for the K3II then they would need to do the same for the Pentax FF - which would more than adequately explain the delay. They would probably also then use the delay to integrate some features that had just missed the earlier design cut.

I would much rather they shipped the FF well tested and working, not with known or potential problems that have bled up from earlier designs and models.

I am certainly looking forward to the spec release

[Nicolas06]

Honestly we can dislike what normhead say but he is right.

We have proof that at least one time kenspo communicated plainly wrong information. maybe not his fault, still doesn't mean the information is more reliable. Also he is also under contract by Ricoh so his not neutral in this game.

On Ricoh side, they don't have to give any reason and if they communicate on it, they can say what they want, lie or filter and really we wouldn't know. The reality can really be dismissed by some while a good lie could be accepted as to be likely the truth.

The more people feel like they are insider with privilegied information and the more they think they know about the subject, the more likely they are to be confident in their own deduction without necessarily more accurate.

Now really why do we ever care? It will not change anything anyway. Real information is there delay. How much we will not know until it is actually released.

The wording itself is a strong indication: "Spring" is not something precise.

[DeadJohn]

^ overanalysis. People investing $millions in Ricoh stock don't scrutinize things so much