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09-24-2015, 06:19 AM - 1 Like   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I'm a bit upset about this rebadging stuff; Pentax should strive to become again a leader in optical design, not to outsource it. I hope we'll see some very nice Pentax primes next year, or else my level of grumpiness will get upgraded.
There are two issues here: a) Ricoh Imaging is a small manufacturer with significantly smaller capacities and resources than e.g. Canon or Nikon, and b) they have to quickly build an entire full frame zoom range from scratch in order to be able to compete and sell the upcoming FF DSLR. The D FA* 70-200 f/2.8 appears to be their own design, the D FA 150-450 is their own design, they are going to upgrade the FA Ltd. ... where's the problem with rebadging something tried and tested once in a while?

09-24-2015, 06:21 AM - 2 Likes   #92
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Did you notice that kenspo is pretty silent since the picture and specifications of the new 24-70mm f/2.8 were leaked?

I can’t blame him though since I would be more than mildly annoyed if I were him: the 24x36 camera has been delayed without him being told and the 24-70mm f/2.8, the workhorse lens of many professional photographers, is a mere Tamron without him apparently being made aware of it...
09-24-2015, 06:26 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
A rebadged Tamron cannot be a D FA* lens. It simply cannot meet the constructive requirements - even if its Jun Hirakawa-designed optics are up there.

The Nikkor 24-70 f/2.8 is $2400, a Pentax D FA* 24-70 f/2.8 would have been priced similarly.

I'm a bit upset about this rebadging stuff; Pentax should strive to become again a leader in optical design, not to outsource it. I hope we'll see some very nice Pentax primes next year, or else my level of grumpiness will get upgraded.
No "I'm jumping ship" though, doing it won't get me Pentax lenses.
Agreed, I do not like rebadging stuff too and this lens does look like a rebranded Tamron 24-70, in that, I can understand why this lens is not a star lens, but now I wonder, what will the star lens be then? Coz it will be pointless for Ricoh to release another 24-70 star lens with slightly better optics, build etc and higher price tag, the star lens must have slightly different focal length or max aperture.
09-24-2015, 06:27 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
A rebadged Tamron cannot be a D FA* lens. It simply cannot meet the constructive requirements - even if its Jun Hirakawa-designed optics are up there.

The Nikkor 24-70 f/2.8 is $2400, a Pentax D FA* 24-70 f/2.8 would have been priced similarly.

I'm a bit upset about this rebadging stuff; Pentax should strive to become again a leader in optical design, not to outsource it. I hope we'll see some very nice Pentax primes next year, or else my level of grumpiness will get upgraded.
No "I'm jumping ship" though, doing it won't get me Pentax lenses.
Are we sure if this is a simple rebadge, or if it actually uses Pentax coatings? The optical formula seems fine and if the Pentax coatings let you get a little less flare and better colors, then it will be fine. Honestly, it isn't like the f2.8 normal zoom for APS-C (the 16-50) is that great optically. I like it a lot and having f2.8 is awfully handy, but it flares pretty badly in some situations and has quite a bit of distortion at 16mm. And that is a Pentax designed lens (Tokina licensed the formula for their version).

If this is priced in the 1400 to 1500 dollar range, I would strongly consider getting one in preparation for future full frame camera.

09-24-2015, 06:30 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
Ehm ... if the ¥160,000 (ca. $1,350) figure is correct, that's hardly much. The new Nikon 24-70 f/2.8 to be released in October is officially priced at ¥251,500 (ca. $2,100). So there's plenty of room for Pentax to produce a D FA* at a significantly higher price, and still be able to compete with Nikon and Canon.
Well, I don't use ¥, but I have seen recent pricing of newly released lenses from other brands in JPY and comparing the price in USD and AUD ( Which is what I use) is certainly not cheap.

For a 24-70 f2.8 lens, the pricing is not bad if you look at CaNikon 24-70 f2.8 lenses, but I' more interested to know what will be the star lens be if this is not the one. If the performance of the star lens is better then this( It should) and comparable to CaNikon 24-70 f2.8 pricing then of coz it is understandable.
09-24-2015, 06:38 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I'm a bit upset about this rebadging stuff;
Oh no! Kunzite has lost his optimism, Pentax is doomed!!



I share your sentiment, but I think we'll see genuine Pentax lenses soon. And the 150-450 seems like a well designed lens indeed.
09-24-2015, 06:38 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by ColiNiloK Quote
For a 24-70 f2.8 lens, the pricing is not bad if you look at CaNikon 24-70 f2.8 lenses, but I' more interested to know what will be the star lens be if this is not the one. If the performance of the star lens is better then this( It should) and comparable to CaNikon 24-70 f2.8 pricing then of coz it is understandable.
I was also wondering what the star lens will be, but then I realised there is nothing on the road map. So maybe this is just it (for the foreseeable future)? We are all used to manufacturers putting a lot of effort into making the 24-70 f/2.8 (or equivalent) their crown jewel zoom - the Nikkor, the Canon L, the Sony Zeiss T*, the Olympus Pro, the Panasonic G X Vario ... But if the rebadged Tamron with better coatings and weather sealing delivers decent enough quality at a reasonable price, why should Pentax waste resources on some expensive super-duper lens?
09-24-2015, 06:39 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by ColiNiloK Quote
For a 24-70 f2.8 lens, the pricing is not bad if you look at CaNikon 24-70 f2.8 lenses, but I' more interested to know what will be the star lens be if this is not the one. If the performance of the star lens is better then this( It should) and comparable to CaNikon 24-70 f2.8 pricing then of coz it is understandable.
Don't expect another lens in this range as a star lens. This is it (I guess). Just something like 25-100mm/f4 as a kit lens would make sense.

09-24-2015, 06:40 AM - 1 Like   #99
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Remember that the lens on the roadmap is called "D FA large diameter standard zoom", a definition which totally corresponds to the HD Pentax-D FA 24-70mm f/2.8 ED SDM WR that will be announced tomorrow.

Remember also that the "Large diameter telephoto zoom" that was figured on the September 2014 roadmap and has become the HD Pentax-D FA★ 70-200 mm f/2,8 ED DC AW was represented with an orange line (like all ★ lenses) whilst the "D FA large diameter standard zoom" is represented with a red one (as all standard HD lenses).

Ricoh never said nor wrote that this lens would be a D FA★. We did and thought so.

And, the same causes producing the same effects, the red-represented "D FA Large diameter wide zoom", the 15-30ish lens, won't be a ★ lens either.

Last edited by Mistral75; 09-24-2015 at 06:51 AM.
09-24-2015, 06:42 AM - 1 Like   #100
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Actually, D-FA 150-450 doesn't need any * to be a star
09-24-2015, 06:45 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
I was also wondering what the star lens will be, but then I realised there is nothing on the road map. So maybe this is just it (for the foreseeable future)? We are all used to manufacturers putting a lot of effort into making the 24-70 f/2.8 (or equivalent) their crown jewel zoom - the Nikkor, the Canon L, the Sony Zeiss T*, the Olympus Pro, the Panasonic G X Vario ... But if the rebadged Tamron with better coatings and weather sealing delivers decent enough quality at a reasonable price, why should Pentax waste resources on some expensive super-duper lens?
True, I agree 100% what you said. Just it seems a little funny that if the 70-200 is a star lens but the 24-70 is a rebranded no-one star lens, but it is performs well and it's cheaper than the competition yea why not? As for what will be not be a star lens in this focal range we'll all see soon.
09-24-2015, 06:47 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Oh no! Kunzite has lost his optimism, Pentax is doomed!!

I am... optimistically annoyed?
09-24-2015, 06:48 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Are we sure if this is a simple rebadge, or if it actually uses Pentax coatings? The optical formula seems fine and if the Pentax coatings let you get a little less flare and better colors, then it will be fine. Honestly, it isn't like the f2.8 normal zoom for APS-C (the 16-50) is that great optically. I like it a lot and having f2.8 is awfully handy, but it flares pretty badly in some situations and has quite a bit of distortion at 16mm. And that is a Pentax designed lens (Tokina licensed the formula for their version).

If this is priced in the 1400 to 1500 dollar range, I would strongly consider getting one in preparation for future full frame camera.
I don't quite understand the whole concept of rebranding, either. For lens coatings alone, doesn't that require special equipment, materials, and technology which would be specific to the manufacturer? I can certainly see Ricoh licensing the optical design and buying the lens elements and other internal components from another maker such as Tamron. From there, would they manufacture the barrel, apply the coatings, and assemble in their own shop?
09-24-2015, 06:48 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Don't expect another lens in this range as a star lens. This is it (I guess). Just something like 25-100mm/f4 as a kit lens would make sense.
Hmm, it seems so according to the road map, but just to me this should be the star lens and a 24-105/120mm f4 should be the "normal" D FA lens. Well if this 24-70 performs well and cheaper than the equivalent CaNikon Sony etc 24-70 f2.8 lens why not? A badge is sometimes just a badge, the lens' true performance matters more.
09-24-2015, 06:52 AM   #105
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We will have to resort to drop tests to test build quality vs the Nikon and Canon. Who is ready to sponsor that?
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