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09-28-2015, 01:32 PM   #271
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QuoteOriginally posted by Franc Quote
it is, mandatory 2 years in EU, go back to your dealer and let him fix it.
I asked in practice this is not really the case. You have to prove that there was an hidden deffect from the begining I think if this is after 6 month for this law. But another law grant you at least 1 year.

09-28-2015, 01:45 PM   #272
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@Edgar_In_Indy I'll ask again since there was no response to the prior open query - would you pay $20 for a 2-Year Warranty Card (Extension)? How much would you pay for 4 additional years? Why not leave it up to the buyer how much insurance to buy?
09-28-2015, 01:58 PM   #273
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
@Edgar_In_Indy I'll ask again since there was no response to the prior open query - would you pay $20 for a 2-Year Warranty Card (Extension)? How much would you pay for 4 additional years? Why not leave it up to the buyer how much insurance to buy?
Makes too much sense, Monochrome. I've bought the card for seven different bodies and used it once where the repair cost would have more than all the cards together. Shockingly, repaired item took only a week to repair.
09-28-2015, 02:08 PM   #274
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QuoteOriginally posted by lukulele Quote
Makes too much sense, Monochrome. I've bought the card for seven different bodies and used it once where the repair cost would have more than all the cards together. Shockingly, repaired item took only a week to repair.
unfortunately I've never seen it offered on lenses.

FWIW, the warranty and repair service issues are (IMHO) real issues that need addressing. Ricoh's absolute silence on the matter is concerning. I disagree with the 'standard' solution, is all.

If $20 defrays the imputed cost of offering 2-years additional warranty then the lens should be priced at $1,319 - and people would complain it costs more.

09-28-2015, 02:48 PM   #275
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
If $20 defrays the imputed cost of offering 2-years additional warranty then the lens should be priced at $1,319 - and people would complain it costs more.
I'm not so sure that people will complain about a $20 price premium if it means enjoying several more years of theoretically worry-free camera and lens usage. They might complain about it when buying a $30 toaster, but not a $1500 camera.

It's also worth noting that the availability of local warranty support - even if limited to 1 year - is often the main reason people cite for not buying grey imports, even if grey is often cheaper.
09-28-2015, 03:09 PM   #276
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I'm not so sure that people will complain about a $20 price premium if it means enjoying several more years of theoretically worry-free camera and lens usage. They might complain about it when buying a $30 toaster, but not a $1500 camera.

It's also worth noting that the availability of local warranty support - even if limited to 1 year - is often the main reason people cite for not buying grey imports, even if grey is often cheaper.
Really? If the Pentax lens was listed at $10 more per year of additional warranty to match the Tamron Warranty term (would that be $1,339?) people here would be HOWLING at Ricoh for charging more than Tamron. As it is, a few uninformed people accuse Pentax of charging more then Tamron when the List Prices are identical.
09-28-2015, 03:23 PM   #277
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
As it is, a few uninformed people accuse Pentax of charging more then Tamron when the List Prices are identical.
To be fair, there were some rumoured prices which were much higher, not that long ago. But once things get confirmed and official, many of these worries and outrage will subside
09-28-2015, 03:27 PM   #278
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Only to be replaced by another outrage - now it's the "OMG, they're using SDM!"

09-28-2015, 03:35 PM   #279
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Only to be replaced by another outrage - now it's the "OMG, they're using SDM!"
But then again that acronym does imply a retrograde step as all recent Pentax lenses have been DC giving the impression that both the SDM technology and acronym had been retired. In this context it is only to be expected that people will be surprised this is described as SDM. But once we know it's actually Tamron's HSM the disappointment is tempered
09-28-2015, 03:36 PM   #280
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
To be fair, there were some rumoured prices which were much higher, not that long ago. But once things get confirmed and official, many of these worries and outrage will subside
Heh - yes, the rumors are a large part of the problem.

When we couple the short warranty with the stories of unsatisfctory service experiences from contracted providers this is an area that needs attention from Ricoh. I think this is one of the costs of a low volume strategy when you can't/don't justify a premium price. You don't have enough unit volume to spread the cost of the warranty and service costs over a large unit base, so you either offer less or charge more. Warranties and Service DO cost money.

Let's use the optional $20 warranty card as an example. If that's a true cost and Ricoh (Tamron) makes 25,000 of these lenses, that's a $500,000 additional cost - that's a lot of money!

Catch-22.

Last edited by monochrome; 09-28-2015 at 03:43 PM.
09-28-2015, 03:58 PM   #281
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Interesting discussion on warranties. DSLR cameras and modern lenses are electro-mechanical devices, so the failure modes are a combination of both mechanical and electrical system failures.

I won't generally purchase extended warranties on electronic goods, because the majority of failures tends to occur very early or very late in the item's service life, so they're money for jam to retailers and underwriters, which is why sales people push them to customers. However, mechanical failures can occur early through manufacturing or design defect (as with purely electronic goods) but the majority of mid to late service failures depend on usage, not time. Some electronic failures also fall into this category, as do high-power electrical components (flash tubes, thyristors, capacitors etc) but the majority are lower power devices that keep working long after the rest of the device has packed it in.

Ideally, photographic manufacturers would offer a combination warranty, like motorcars used to have (eg five years or 50,000 actuations, for a camera) but lenses would have to be modified to detect and record the number of focus and zoom traverses, to have some meaning. I guess you can see the manufacturers' dilemma here, so they probably just take the easy route, and work on their failure data, stick a pin on the board and see how that fits, more or less.

Last edited by RobA_Oz; 09-28-2015 at 04:38 PM.
09-28-2015, 04:08 PM   #282
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Heh - yes, the rumors are a large part of the problem.

When we couple the short warranty with the stories of unsatisfctory service experiences from contracted providers this is an area that needs attention from Ricoh. I think this is one of the costs of a low volume strategy when you can't/don't justify a premium price. You don't have enough unit volume to spread the cost of the warranty and service costs over a large unit base, so you either offer less or charge more. Warranties and Service DO cost money.

Let's use the optional $20 warranty card as an example. If that's a true cost and Ricoh (Tamron) makes 25,000 of these lenses, that's a $500,000 additional cost - that's a lot of money!

Catch-22.
Ah, Catch 22. A favorite Heller character Milo Minderbender comes to mind from a half century ago.
09-28-2015, 04:27 PM   #283
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
@Edgar_In_Indy I'll ask again since there was no response to the prior open query - would you pay $20 for a 2-Year Warranty Card (Extension)? How much would you pay for 4 additional years? Why not leave it up to the buyer how much insurance to buy?
Sure, I'd pay an extra $20 to double the warranty, assuming I could actually count on getting my item repaired in a timely and competent manner. But from what I've heard, a warranty extension card from Pentax wouldn't hardly be worth the paper it's printed on since it sounds like it often takes months and a lot of leg work to actually get anything repaired.

I simply would not buy an expensive Pentax lens at this point given the state of their repair service here in the US.

And if I were going to buy an extended warranty, I'd rather get one from Mack Camera than from Pentax. If Mack can't get your item repaired, they'll cut you a check for the replacement cost. I had a good experience with them with one of my old home theater projectors. I bought it second hand for $500, and the original owner bought a Mack Camera warranty which I was able to transfer to my name. When it failed and was deemed too expensive to repair, Mack sent me a $1000 check to replace it with the current model. The whole process took a few weeks, but they did send me the check.

If someone does decide to buy a Pentax lens, in addition to the 3rd party warranty, I would also use a charge card that extends the warranty. For example, my Visa card doubles manufacturer's warranties up to an additional year. So my new Pentax lens would be covered for 2 years. And Visa would probably be a lot more responsive to a customer when Pentax tried to take months to repair the thing.
09-28-2015, 04:56 PM   #284
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
would you pay $20 for a 2-Year Warranty Card (Extension)? How much would you pay for 4 additional years?
I've bought the $20 extended warranty for every camera body I've bought. In the USA it extends the 1 year warranty to a total of 3 years. I've used it once and recovered the cost of all the cards purchased. I would do the same for a lens, particularly one over $1,000.

On the other hand I have never bought an "extended warranty" or service plan for any other electronics. Because when you buy those if you add it up they usually charge 15 to 20% of new and that always seemed to be a rip off. Pentax's $20 'card' is a great deal IMHO.

I would be happier with a three year warranty on new lenses out of the box. Not everyone will be aware, but for those that are it seems wrong to buy a rebadged Tamron lens and get a 1 year warranty when you could (if it was available) buy the Tamron itself and get a 6 year warranty.
09-28-2015, 05:04 PM   #285
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Not everyone will be aware, but for those that are it seems wrong to buy a rebadged Tamron lens and get a 1 year warranty when you could (if it was available) buy the Tamron itself and get a 6 year warranty.
Especially if the retail price is practically the same when you look across to it's price in other mounts, as it seems to be with this new Tamron.
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