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09-29-2015, 08:18 AM   #316
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Not everyone will be aware, but for those that are it seems wrong to buy a rebadged Tamron lens and get a 1 year warranty when you could (if it was available) buy the Tamron itself and get a 6 year warranty.
There's a bit of a trade-off going here. With the Tamron version of the lens you get a six year warranty. With the Pentax you get the HD coatings. Each informed consumer must decide what's more important: the six year warranty or the Pentax coatings?

I would also add that when I was researching the older Tamron 70-200, I came across a number of people who had been inexplicably denied warranty coverage on their Tamron lenses on the grounds that the lens in question, according to Tamron, had suffered "shock damage." So there may be a question as to how good that six year warranty really is. Technically, the Tamron warranty only covers "defective materials or workmanship for Six Years from the date of original purchase, and is limited to repair, adjustment and/or replacement of defective parts. [The Warranty] covers all defects encountered in normal use of the lens. This Limited Warranty does not cover normal wear and tear such as scratches, etc."

09-29-2015, 08:37 AM   #317
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
There's a bit of a trade-off going here. With the Tamron version of the lens you get a six year warranty. With the Pentax you get the HD coatings. Each informed consumer must decide what's more important: the six year warranty or the Pentax coatings?

I would also add that when I was researching the older Tamron 70-200, I came across a number of people who had been inexplicably denied warranty coverage on their Tamron lenses on the grounds that the lens in question, according to Tamron, had suffered "shock damage." So there may be a question as to how good that six year warranty really is. Technically, the Tamron warranty only covers "defective materials or workmanship for Six Years from the date of original purchase, and is limited to repair, adjustment and/or replacement of defective parts. [The Warranty] covers all defects encountered in normal use of the lens. This Limited Warranty does not cover normal wear and tear such as scratches, etc."
There is more than one way to do a warranty. One can see it as an outright cost and therefore a drain or one can also see it as a sales and marketing opportunity. For example, Olympus here offer a six-month warranty extension if you sign up for "My Olympus" and agree to receive their newsletter - i.e., presumably, in effect you agree to receive a certain amount of advertising/marketing from them. This quickly leads to putting their program of photography training and photo events in front of you. On signing up to My Olympus you also receive a goodybag in the mail containing a few branded items - lens cloth, torch, pen, etc. These are all ways of holding the costumer close to you. I expect other companies have other little schemes. Pentax here don't so far as I know although I do receive marketing emails from them from time to time. Clearly all this stuff costs money, but on the other hand if the net effect of staying on the sidelines is that a whole lot of folks buy the next guy's products instead, perhaps it is a game one has to play. In the EU there is a two year warranty anyway by law. Olympus, as in this example, are only extending what they have to offer by six months or 25 per cent, not a huge extra burden and clearly they are hoping to get something back by treating it as marketing exercise.

---------- Post added 09-29-15 at 05:11 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The Warranty has a cost on the Balance Sheet (Liability). By adding the swag bag the cost associated with the extension is posted to SG&A Expense (Marketing) on the Income Statement. Nothing is free.
You are missing the point that putting marketing offers in front of the customer may lead to further sales of equipment and accessories (like training days), thus offsetting the cost of any extension of the warranty. Nothing is free simply means that acquiring customers costs something and retaining them costs something else. I think the point is that customers are also free to buy the next guy's products and they probably will if one only looks at this kind of thing from the parsimonious POV of "it costs us". Yes it does, but one also needs to consider whether not doing it costs us more (lost sales, which aren't quantified on a spreadsheet so accounts departments never realize what they are proposing).
09-29-2015, 09:13 AM   #318
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Warranty expense management is cited as the next frontier in corporate cost control, especially in technology and electronics. Costs run as high as 5% of Revenue, and are a ripe area for reduction. Principal techniques include warranting ONLY the risks your customers fear, examining the cost trade offs in product design, product quality and QC (sampling), sharing costs with component suppliers and 'tested' marketing benefits.

Highly complex and as yet immature 'Best Practices' area, fraught with uncertainties caused by conflicts bt US and EU and ROW taxation schemes and consumer protection schemes (Dodd-Frank).

Frankly, the drive to keep prices low is the root cause of these product failures - and the need for all-hazards warranties.

Last edited by monochrome; 09-29-2015 at 09:41 AM.
09-29-2015, 09:25 AM   #319
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QuoteOriginally posted by redcat Quote
it means : more expensive and more Pro (build, optic, look...) ^^
Ahh.. that makes sense.

I just thought it was reserved for lenses with the best optical quality. I don't think it still says anything about the level of weathersealing, as the D-FA 70-200 has both the star and AW designations.

But Pentax is not the most consistent brand when it comes to these things. Red rings, green rings, silver rings, new cameras have decreasing numbers in their names (K-7, K-5, K-3... will there be a K+1 two iterations away?), yet there is the K-m, K-x, K-r logic (or lack thereof) and proliferation of the acronym SDM. When you had K-500, K-50, K-5 I thought, "maybe they'll go from here", but they didn't. Would be difficult anyway since K-7 was already taken.


Last edited by starbase218; 09-29-2015 at 09:37 AM.
09-29-2015, 10:05 AM   #320
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Pro lenses and cameras should have at least two years of warranty. Another problem is in their unresponsive and quite expencive repair services which
don't offer appropriate support.
For example, two months of waiting for lens af adjustment is too long for a pro customer.
09-29-2015, 10:42 AM   #321
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Warranty expense management is cited as the next frontier in corporate cost control, especially in technology and electronics. Costs run as high as 5% of Revenue, and are a ripe area for reduction. Principal techniques include warranting ONLY the risks your customers fear, examining the cost trade offs in product design, product quality and QC (sampling), sharing costs with component suppliers and 'tested' marketing benefits.

Highly complex and as yet immature 'Best Practices' area, fraught with uncertainties caused by conflicts bt US and EU and ROW taxation schemes and consumer protection schemes (Dodd-Frank).

Frankly, the drive to keep prices low is the root cause of these product failures - and the need for all-hazards warranties.
3rd party warranties are available for the people who want to pay for them. Forcing companies to provide better warranties just means that everyone has to pay for them instead of the just the people who want a better warranty. I have never has a lens fail that wasn't over 10 years old and that was a Contax 645 lens, but then I've never owned a Pentax SDM lens either. I can see why Pentax users are more concerned about lens failure and warranty.

When I started out as a photographer I probably bought a couple of dozen gray market items without warranty and never had a failure. I'm sure I saved over $5,000 if I added up all of the Canon bodies and glass. I still have an EOS 630 that I bought through Abe's that was gray market. Still worked the last time I put a battery in it.

If people want to buy a warranty they should be able to. If people want to save money and buy a product that doesn't have a warranty, they should be able to.
09-29-2015, 11:46 AM - 1 Like   #322
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QuoteOriginally posted by starbase218 Quote
new cameras have decreasing numbers in their names (K-7, K-5, K-3...
You have it all wrong, this is an increasing sequence: K minus 7, K minus 5, K minus 3...
09-29-2015, 11:55 AM   #323
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I don't disagree on these warranty points necessarily. I only state the decision is significantly more complex and the inputs much more company-dependent than we can address here. I submit sales volume of an item or line is very important because fixed costs and certain product design costs (that would reduce defects) can be spread over a larger # of units. Pentax is at a financial disadvantage in this regard.

09-29-2015, 12:54 PM   #324
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It would be nice to see the same 2 year warranty on Pentax gear here in the US that is in plenty of other places. I did buy the 20 dollar extended warranty on my K3 though.
09-29-2015, 12:59 PM - 1 Like   #325
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Is it time to start talking about cheese yet?
09-29-2015, 01:00 PM   #326
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Pentax really does need a professional service for Pros especially now they are pushing the 645z. Canon professionals have either instant turnaround or loaner bodies\lenses. Time is money and having gear down cuts into increasing tight profit margins.

Canon Professional Services - About CPS The lowest level membership is 5-7 day turn around. The highest level is 2 business days. Your repair is always tracked and not just lost in some system. Precision is used by other makers but there needs to be a higher standard if they are going to go after pros.
09-29-2015, 01:11 PM   #327
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QuoteOriginally posted by bxf Quote
You have it all wrong, this is an increasing sequence: K minus 7, K minus 5, K minus 3...
So it's like a countdown?! Until fullframe time? Which is the K, without any number, because K then denotes a time. Like T minus 10, 9, 8, 7...

So the Pentax fullframe camera will be called the Pentax K. Maybe.
09-29-2015, 01:33 PM   #328
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Is it time to start talking about cheese yet?
I think we have to wait until October 6th. But I had Swiss cheese for lunch, if anyone cares.................
09-29-2015, 01:39 PM   #329
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Is it time to start talking about cheese yet?
I think I will make a tuna and cheese casserole tonight because of this.
09-29-2015, 01:50 PM   #330
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
@Edgar_In_Indy I'll ask again since there was no response to the prior open query - would you pay $20 for a 2-Year Warranty Card (Extension)? How much would you pay for 4 additional years? Why not leave it up to the buyer how much insurance to buy?
This sounds like gambling where Ricoh has a much better idea about the odds than I do.

Seriously though, I have no idea what an added year of warranty would cost them but $20 for an extra year on a $1300 lens would seem cheap to me. Low enough that I'd assume they have pretty high confidence that it was well made and I probably wouldn't need the extra warranty, so I'd be tempted to pass. But it would be a good deal, so maybe I would get it. Blast! Just work it into the price so I don't have to decide! I promise not to complain!
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