Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
10-03-2015, 05:56 PM   #421
Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,722
QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
But if the lens had a rotation sensor, as discussed above.
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
What lenses really need is a step motor.... the camera would do a calibration routine when the lens is mounted for the first time, then the AF servo would be able to control the position of the focus element in real time and the AF would be spot on every time. It looks like Canon implemented that in their STM lenses.
For a couple of years, I was a software developer at a company that makes medical lab equipment. We found that the routines involved in precisely locating a test tube (to put something in it, for example) could move the mechanism much faster when the mechanism could report on where it had actually gone to (before we had to run the stepper motors more slowly to make sure they went where we told them to go).

10-03-2015, 08:22 PM   #422
Pentaxian
Edgar_in_Indy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Indiana, USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,554
Reh321, I just noticed that you're also from Indiana. That's at least four Hoosiers participating in this thread now. (Me, you, Rondec, and VoiceofReason). Kinda funny.
10-03-2015, 09:58 PM   #423
Senior Member




Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: So-central, MI / Central, IN
Posts: 172
Am here also, checkin in faithfully and almost daily… but will admit I get put-off by the level of pessimism and disputing around here these days.

Loved the level of enthusiasm back when I joined in the ole K-5 days

Am always anxious for more juicy Pentax news of exciting product announcements. Much too busy to input as I wish- but always appreciating everyone else's contribution pics they post on the other threads.

Edit *** Just realized I'm kinda only a half-Hoosier… guess that might make me a Hoser then, Oh well go figure LOL!!

Last edited by One3rdEV; 10-03-2015 at 10:03 PM. Reason: a little bit of humor
10-03-2015, 11:27 PM   #424
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,812
QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
But the lens knows what the offset in focus is. It knows it's current position. It also knows what the offset of the PDAF sensor means in distance. A fast AF system requires a smart lens as opposed to -move the lens - check focus - oops need more - move the lens - check focus, etc. The PDAF sensor returns an offset from focus in or out. The lens knows where it is, it knows the curve of adjustment over the focal length. The calculation takes all of that and determines a focus point, and using the lens data knows how many turns or what signal to give to the lens to focus. Then it is verified, and if not precisely focused starts the loop again. I think some of that is available in the KAF3 mount spec, but not enough. An poorly calibrated lens will overshoot or undershoot, and/or the pdaf offset bias is incorrect meaning it doesn't find focus, hunts or is slow.
Ah I think I understand what you mean. The AF servo would be in the lens rather than the body. The body would provide power for the lens actuation and information from the phase detect sensor array located in camera body. The thing is this would have to become an industry standard, because there is already the issues with body-lens interoperability.

10-04-2015, 01:34 AM   #425
Forum Member




Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 83
We are long past the point of good enough for most consumers. Some people find smartphones good enough for taking photos, I find them good enough only if a proper pc or camera is unavailable at that time and place. But the damage has already be done. Camera companies will have to further downsize. The camera division of Canon in a decade will look a lot like Pentax today, and I will bet the first company to shutdown will be Nikon as they are the only purelly photography outhere with big production lines. So I am not a believer in a brave full frame world, consumers in big numbers leave this market like they have left hifi and home theater some time ago.

That being said for a good number of enthusiasts the DFA 24-70mm will be the best photo reletated purchase they will make ever. Good performance (from the diagrams at least), usefull range and speed at a reasonable price. Coupled with a K-3 like Pentax full frame dslr I think it will be the high mark for no nonsence photography (soon to be extinct to my dismay).
10-04-2015, 02:08 AM   #426
Pentaxian
RobA_Oz's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,120
QuoteOriginally posted by pacu Quote
We are long past the point of good enough for most consumers. Some people find smartphones good enough for taking photos, I find them good enough only if a proper pc or camera is unavailable at that time and place. But the damage has already be done. Camera companies will have to further downsize. The camera division of Canon in a decade will look a lot like Pentax today, and I will bet the first company to shutdown will be Nikon as they are the only purelly photography outhere with big production lines. So I am not a believer in a brave full frame world, consumers in big numbers leave this market like they have left hifi and home theater some time ago.

That being said for a good number of enthusiasts the DFA 24-70mm will be the best photo reletated purchase they will make ever. Good performance (from the diagrams at least), usefull range and speed at a reasonable price. Coupled with a K-3 like Pentax full frame dslr I think it will be the high mark for no nonsence photography (soon to be extinct to my dismay).
This is really a subject for elsewhere, and it has been worked over a few times here, already. People eventually come back to quality, just like they came back to vinyl audio a few years ago (true HiFi never went away, but the mass of people listening to compressed digital audio and using travesties like the Beats headphones would never buy real HiFi), with the result that there are more and pricier turntables on the market now than there were at the height of vinyl's pre-digital popularity. Younger people are discovering the joys of film. What has changed in photography is that camera phones have replaced point and shoot cameras with the mass of people, but they lack the zoom lenses that the last P&S cameras had, so in effect, the camera phone has taken people back to 1960s film. Convenience will trump both quality and features for a while, so it generally takes some time before a critical mass of people discover what they're missing, and they will start to reconsider what they're taking photos with. A zoom lens in a compact phone is physically impractical, if not impossible, unless sensors get even smaller, or people start using brick-sized phones again.

So, I'm not pessimistic about the future for Pentax, or other DSLR manufacturers, even if they have to extend more into mirrorless systems, in order to meet a future market. Ricoh is building the lens range for the new 35FF, with a mixture of their own and contracted lenses, and that's a sensible strategy, in my opinion.
10-04-2015, 02:36 AM   #427
Pentaxian
thibs's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Photos: Albums
Posts: 5,159
Just as a footnote but Nikon is Not only consumer photography oriented.
As an example, the have a nice business of parts used in semiconductor manufacturing.
They also have microscope, telescope and since February medical division.
10-04-2015, 08:09 AM   #428
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 888
QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
It's a Tamron motor, so don't worry. The only thing Pentax about this lens are the HD coatings, the mount, and the Pentax label.

$1,300 is a very good price for a lens that will give you ~98% what the Canon and Nikon 24-70s provide plus Pentax colors.
Pentax wants me to buy a fullframe camea with Sony 42 MP sensor as rumors have it. The same sensor - by pixel count - can be had in a Sony Alpha now.
Next Pentax wants me to invest in a large aperture 24-70 zoom that is actually a Tamron design that can be had for any other full frame camera as well.
To make the combo complete, a large aperture 70-200 has been announced.

Changing to FF makes you reconsider all camera/lens options. Pentax/Ricoh should not emss up this one ...

10-04-2015, 08:54 AM   #429
Forum Member




Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 83
QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
This is really a subject for elsewhere, and it has been worked over a few times here, already. People eventually come back to quality, just like they came back to vinyl audio a few years ago (true HiFi never went away, but the mass of people listening to compressed digital audio and using travesties like the Beats headphones would never buy real HiFi), with the result that there are more and pricier turntables on the market now than there were at the height of vinyl's pre-digital popularity. Younger people are discovering the joys of film. What has changed in photography is that camera phones have replaced point and shoot cameras with the mass of people, but they lack the zoom lenses that the last P&S cameras had, so in effect, the camera phone has taken people back to 1960s film. Convenience will trump both quality and features for a while, so it generally takes some time before a critical mass of people discover what they're missing, and they will start to reconsider what they're taking photos with. A zoom lens in a compact phone is physically impractical, if not impossible, unless sensors get even smaller, or people start using brick-sized phones again.

So, I'm not pessimistic about the future for Pentax, or other DSLR manufacturers, even if they have to extend more into mirrorless systems, in order to meet a future market. Ricoh is building the lens range for the new 35FF, with a mixture of their own and contracted lenses, and that's a sensible strategy, in my opinion.

Well the first camera for me was a Praktica MTL 3 with a Pentacon 50mm f1.8 and I will tell you it is easier to take photos with that than with a smartphone if you don't care about weight, despite being a manual camera. Because of ergonomics, smartphones are just a slab with a screen , the tablets just bigger versions of that. The ergonomics of smartphones are non existant for specific jobs, for example as cameras, as mp3 players etc. Yet for 90% of population the convinience of a single device in the pocket or the bag is the only that counts. Every euro, dollar, yen, pound whatever spent on smartphone is money not spent on various devices. Even an entry dslr was more expensive 15 years ago than the aps-c flagships today because of low volume. Volume is what drives down prices on chips and a low volume market will soon get really expensive again. Image sensor chips donnot get smaller for the same format as technology improves and as a resault cannot get as cheap as an ARM prossesor core.

I believe that Ricoh and Canon are more business savvy than Nikon or Olympus and in the long term it will count for something.
I hope the micro 4/3 format survives the full frame madness for the time being because it's 4:3 image ratio brings something to the table.

As for Nikon it will bring me a smile to see them having to downsize fast, with all the negativity Nikon fanboys smeared all over the place for Pentax. Nikon pro stuff are better than the Pentax amateur staff as oranges are different to apples. If you compare a Nikon full frame combo twice as expensive as a Pentax aps-c, it better be better in quality. The only system currently Pentax has specifically for professional use is the 645 and it is truly unique. I hope Pentax full frame does not stop development of the 645 system or the aps-c lenses. I am only interest in cheap stuff the most expensive lence I have is an DFA 100mm macro but I like to see that photographers with more money have options.

It is a bit deppressing to see a go full frame or go smartphone mentallity on the internet, I hope for the best.

(Offtopic all these beats headphones are money lost to decent headphones, there goes the neighbourhood )

---------- Post added 10-04-15 at 07:10 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
Pentax wants me to buy a fullframe camea with Sony 42 MP sensor as rumors have it. The same sensor - by pixel count - can be had in a Sony Alpha now.
Next Pentax wants me to invest in a large aperture 24-70 zoom that is actually a Tamron design that can be had for any other full frame camera as well.
To make the combo complete, a large aperture 70-200 has been announced.

Changing to FF makes you reconsider all camera/lens options. Pentax/Ricoh should not emss up this one ...
If Sony respected the alpha mount I think they would be the best dslr system with the resources they threw at mirrorless systems with weak image quality in corners by design. They only care to impress consumers with the appereance of the camera.

Every one can build a better camera than Sony with a Sony sensor, for that there is no question.

The only thing I want to see is an autofocus that will do the DFA 150-450 justice. The K mount needs to get out of the inferior autofocus hole, at least as a perception. Pentax screwdriver lenses are not all slow to focus, the da 35 f2.4 is the fastest among its pears, but its noisy and for some people even a quarter of a second is a long time to listen to a drill.
10-04-2015, 08:02 PM   #430
osv
Pentaxian




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: So Cal
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,080
QuoteOriginally posted by pacu Quote
If Sony respected the alpha mount I think they would be the best dslr system with the resources they threw at mirrorless systems with weak image quality in corners by design.
only with certain lenses, such as the fe24-70; the tamron a-mount 24-70 is the better choice.

sony has at least two world-class e-mount primes, and a motorized parfocal 28-135/4 that no company can match.

QuoteOriginally posted by pacu Quote
Every one can build a better camera than Sony with a Sony sensor, for that there is no question.
it's all a big tradeoff, but with the dual-gain 42mp a7rii sensor, i doubt that you'll see any company do it better than sony did.

because, afaik the only other company that uses dual-gain sensor technology is nikon, who else has dual-gain technology.
10-05-2015, 12:15 AM   #431
Pentaxian




Join Date: Oct 2010
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,663
Most of small car makers does co'operation on their carmodels because it is smart to share the expences on products which are sold for a sertain price. Very smart, even better if product is good/great.

This ideology goes to this 24-70 zoom too. Everyone wins, and engineers can focus on making new things. Products which are more unique to the system.

No problem there, great thing that this will be great consumer lens available with pentax stamper on it. Really that makes a big differense to many. Lot of photographers would buy sigma/tamron anyway, if possible...

Couple happy ones can afford 70-200 and 150-450 kind of lenses too.
Just a thought.

Pentax want to give a great addition on their line and they do know how business goes. They will not compete with big ones, they want to be on same table and take their share...
10-05-2015, 07:39 AM   #432
Forum Member




Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 83
QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
only with certain lenses, such as the fe24-70; the tamron a-mount 24-70 is the better choice.

sony has at least two world-class e-mount primes, and a motorized parfocal 28-135/4 that no company can match.



it's all a big tradeoff, but with the dual-gain 42mp a7rii sensor, i doubt that you'll see any company do it better than sony did.

because, afaik the only other company that uses dual-gain sensor technology is nikon, who else has dual-gain technology.
If you don't get the shot you got nothing. Sony has the worst ergonomics of all manufacturers in the case of mirrorless full frame in my opinion. One or two centimeters longer grip would so diffcult ? I guess that will be in the third iteration.
10-05-2015, 08:41 AM   #433
Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,722
QuoteOriginally posted by pacu Quote
If you don't get the shot you got nothing. Sony has the worst ergonomics of all manufacturers in the case of mirrorless full frame in my opinion. One or two centimeters longer grip would so diffcult ? I guess that will be in the third iteration.
And this is the kind of discussion that gives camera designers hearburn. You want a larger camera, while I want one as small as possible (I got the K-30 only because my budget was cramped, and I got it at a good price). I think they should be aiming for something the size of my old Pentax Super Program
10-05-2015, 09:03 AM   #434
Pentaxian
thibs's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Photos: Albums
Posts: 5,159
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
And this is the kind of discussion that gives camera designers hearburn. You want a larger camera, while I want one as small as possible (I got the K-30 only because my budget was cramped, and I got it at a good price). I think they should be aiming for something the size of my old Pentax Super Program
KS-1 ??
Please don't shoot...
10-05-2015, 09:31 AM   #435
Junior Member




Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 47
I'm hoping this is a tweaked Tamron formula, because to really shine on 42MP it could certainly benefit from being a bit stronger than the Tamron, especially in the middle of the zoom range where the Tammy is notoriously weak (and its not that great at the long end). Junking the image stabilisation in the lens may give scope for this... somehow. Exciting times!
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
24-70mm, body, coatings, company, dslr, elements, f2.8, f2.8 ed sdm, fa, fa 24-70mm f2.8, fa*, factory, ff, filters, hd, lens, lenses, nikon, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, post, price, sdm, sdm wr, star, tamron, warranty, wr
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HD Pentax-D FA 24-70mm F2.8 ED SDM WR Announced PF Staff Homepage & Official Pentax News 0 09-24-2015 03:00 PM
Lens Tournament: FA 77mm F1.8 Limited vs D FA 100mm F2.8 WR Macro Adam Pentax Forums Giveaways 17 10-27-2014 07:19 AM
For Sale - Sold: D-FA 100mm f2.8 Macro WR Eagle_Friends Sold Items 6 09-09-2014 10:00 AM
For Sale - Sold: Pentax D-FA 100mm f2.8 Macro WR & DA* 200mm F2.8 ED [IF] SDM jurysi Sold Items 11 09-17-2012 05:27 PM
New Pentax D FA 100mm F2.8 Macro WR Announced Zebooka Pentax News and Rumors 222 01-09-2010 03:51 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:15 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top