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02-05-2016, 10:26 PM   #691
mee
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Well, he editorialzed without facts. Not a great strategy. ☺
It was clearly an (negative) opinion piece, yes. But if it offends so greatly, it is easy enough to ignore and move on to more pressing matters, no?

I'm pretty sure we've all said something we wish we hadn't at some point in time.. this, it seems, could be considered one of his.

That said, digital FF has only blossomed in the previous 10 years to the point where it is rather mature and cost effective for more people. I'd have loved to have seen Pentax digital FF bodies 3 or 4 years ago. But to say they've missed the boat is a bit exaggerated. It will likely be my final upgrade in terms of large format sensored bodies. I will probably never own a digital Medium Format camera and lens collection. FF is ideal (size, price, and resolution wise) for probably a good number of us.

Interestingly, my Dad recently loaned me a ton of negatives from my late granddad's collection of photographs to scan on my Epson. One envelope contained a load of MF negatives.. I had never seen film negatives that large before. I immediately knew what they were (format) but didn't realize until researching afterwards just how common MF film cameras were back in the 40s and 50s. Which then made me wonder how we went from common film 'standard' to pricey digital niche. Strange how that goes. It is fun seeing the world as it was 75 years ago.. similar enough to recognize, yet different enough to still feel alien.

02-05-2016, 10:49 PM   #692
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"Leute hier sind hilfbar und freundlich."

=> depends what you wanna tell them and how you do it

Actually, this is the worst period if any in Pentax history to criticize the forthcomming digital FF....
02-05-2016, 10:51 PM   #693
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Just another "If i dont need it, its not necessary to make it" . Will always be people who can't see longer then the tip of their own nose.

I know what camera the FF will be..It will for sure make Pentax a stronger and more pro brand..Both APS-C and MF will benefit from that. Let us just be happy some of these people doesn't work at Pentax and are just keyboard warriors
02-05-2016, 11:04 PM   #694
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I don't think hes a troll. From his previous posts, he seems to be enjoying APS-C formatted Pentax bodies and (my guess) wants Ricoh to keep their attention on them. That desire seems to have come out in a ranty, negative post. Then the internet effect is let loose and the forum piledrives him into the ground. yikes.
I agree. Perhaps a little strong in his reaction, but from the other posts,he has a long Pentax history. There is some truth that it's a little late out of the gate, but it's OK to disagree with the impact of that delay. Differing opinion should be OK.

I am looking forward to the Pentax FF BTW. I like my Pentax for almost all of my photography, but it would be nice to standardize on only one set of lenses.

02-05-2016, 11:15 PM - 2 Likes   #695
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I don't think hes a troll. From his previous posts, he seems to be enjoying APS-C formatted Pentax bodies and (my guess) wants Ricoh to keep their attention on them.
Perhaps so, and if so I apologize for my harsh words. I commend you for looking at his other posts, I did not bother and made the perhaps unwarranted assumption that someone joining this month and with 8 posts dropping in to tell us the FF was a myth might be trying to stir up some controversy. Glad I am wrong.
02-06-2016, 02:32 AM   #696
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QuoteOriginally posted by bpv_UW Quote
PS - Can't help but notice someone's response to his Intro thread from a couple days ago - "Leute hier sind hilfbar und freundlich." - people here are helpful and friendly. Yea...
Yet he was neither helpful nor friendly.
02-06-2016, 03:21 AM   #697
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The time taken to produce a Pentax FF has been unfortunate but, given the disruptive ownership situation of the brand, almost inevitable -the MX-D. after all, considerably pre-dated Hoya, let alone Ricoh. I think Ricoh deserve a lot of credit for taking a long hard look at the somewhat shambolic set-up they bought, devising a strategy and implementing it. One of the reasons why they didn't go FF earlier, I imagine, is precisely because they knew they were late on the scene and wanted to make a unique offering.They delay from last year is unfortunate inasmuch as it has allowed Nikon and Canon to bring some tasty new offerings to the party first, but it is in line with the strategy of getting it right.

As far as the whole idea of FF is concerned, I'll just say this: I've been recently scanning a load of 35mm slides I took last century, and seeing the result of FF lenses (particularly my 400mm f/5,6 FA* and my 100mm macro-F) on a full frame picture area, I must say I'm realising what I missed, much as I love my K10D and K-3. Hard to define - obviously in the dof, but something more intangible as well which I don't think is solely down to the differences between film and digital sensors.
02-06-2016, 03:51 AM   #698
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Ricoh took the decision and started implementing it within a year - Pentax Ricoh Imaging started in October 1st 2011, and by October 2012 Ricoh officials were already telling us how they're working with a sensor manufacturer and develop towards a commercial product. Likely much less than an entire year; and while going through an extensive reorganization. IMO we can't fault them for delaying things
At first, I believe, they were indeed planning for something simpler and faster to bring on the market - in the October 2012 interview they said the target is 2013 or later. I can't wait to see the end result.

02-06-2016, 04:36 AM   #699
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
... I can't wait to see the end result.
You're in the majority here, I reckon, even including those not intending to buy.

As for our brash friend predicting an "epic fail" because of the lack of lenses, I think even he will be pleasantly surprised by the launch if, as I and others expect, a revised lens road map is released at the same time. If the initial uptake from long-time Pentax users doesn't make the launch a success I'll be very surprised. In five years, it's quite likely that all this will be forgotten, as this body finds its way into the second user market and the next generation body gets taken up.
02-06-2016, 04:37 AM - 1 Like   #700
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QuoteOriginally posted by bpv_UW Quote
Yikes is right.

His post expressed an opinion - one that clearly most participants in this thread disagree with - that the Pentax FF will not be a success. He alluded to the reason for this being an already crowded market (i.e. "10 years too late"), which is not an unreasonable point of view, even if most here don't agree with it or it is ultimately proven incorrect. He made a claim (limited (no pun intended) lineup of FF-compatible lenses) that isn't really accurate (given the myriad legacy options Pentax users have), but that certainly doesn't make his post unique, or even particularly offensive (and could have been corrected gently, as Clackers did). His last sentence is a bit hard to interpret, but seems to refer to Pentax trying to build up anticipation surrounding the FF release (i.e. the teaser site) when in reality it will be difficult for them to release anything truly groundbreaking in an already crowded, competitive market.

For the above, he was rewarded with a brutal stream of name-calling, sarcasm, and offensive clip art. Words were put in his mouth - "no matter how much you try, you can't prevent the Pentax from being released?" (umm, I doubt that was a motivating factor behind his post). His methods of participation in the Forums were misrepresented - "Please do post some pictures as well." (despite being here for only a very short time, he has). His command of the English language was insulted - "Not sure what a myth-story is though. Maybe translation difficulties??" (I'd love to see most people in this thread try to post something in a non-native language (I'm assuming given his residence in Germany that English isn't his first language - OTH if this is incorrect I apologize)). And regarding the comment about being a drive-by troll, if you look at the timing of the posts and where he lives, you'll realize he probably posted this before going to bed - the time that has elapsed since his post was approximately 11pm - 6 am in Germany, not a time when most of us get up to check threads on Pentax Forums. Even if he does come back to this thread, though, he may be surprised by the venomous reaction to his post, which may make it difficult to know how to respond (particularly as a new forum member).

What strikes me most about all this is how utterly reactionary many here are when anyone speaks ill of their beloved FF. For the record, I'm very excited about it, think it will succeed, and plan on getting one, but I don't take personal offense when I encounter someone who doesn't share my views, or assume everyone who doesn't is a troll. Come on people, isn't it good to have a diversity of opinion here?

I would argue that the response, not his post, was far more...(what's the word?)...vexatious.

-Brandon

PS - Can't help but notice someone's response to his Intro thread from a couple days ago - "Leute hier sind hilfbar und freundlich." - people here are helpful and friendly. Yea...
I think the thing is that if enough people bad mouth the camera before it comes out, it is bound to fail.

I have never understood why if you are not interested in a particular piece of gear you have to attack it as worthless. There are many Pentax lenses I'm not interested in -- most of the telephotos, the super zooms, the teleconverter -- but I don't need to show up on threads where people are waiting for their copies to tell them that they are wasting their time and money and Pentax was stupid to release the products in the first place.

I definitely am in the camp where I hope that Pentax continues to support APS-C and believe strongly that for most photographers, it is a good sensor size that delivers good quality images for a decent price. But I still want a Pentax full frame and don't need folks showing up to say that it will be an epic failure.
02-06-2016, 04:49 AM - 2 Likes   #701
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QuoteOriginally posted by bpv_UW Quote
For the above, he was rewarded with a brutal stream of name-calling, sarcasm, and offensive clip art.
Remember: short, controlled bursts.

QuoteOriginally posted by bpv_UW Quote
or assume everyone who doesn't is a troll.
We're all in strung out shape, but stay frosty, and alert. We can't afford to let one of those bastards in here.
02-06-2016, 04:54 AM   #702
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hattifnatt Quote
Remember: short, controlled bursts.



We're all in strung out shape, but stay frosty, and alert. We can't afford to let one of those bastards in here.
How will I know one, Sarge? I hear they've learnt to speak our language! 😀
02-06-2016, 05:21 AM - 1 Like   #703
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QuoteOriginally posted by bpv_UW Quote
His post expressed an opinion...
You have a point, and the reaction may have been a bit over the top, but I don't believe you are entirely accurate. The reaction to the post is a result of its tone.

"Pentax is able for APS-C and is able for medium-format, but they aren't for 35mm."

This statement makes it sound like Pentax is incompetent and is stupid for even trying. They cannot possibly create a good 35mm system.

"I wonder that Pentax is doing such a myth-story around the 35mm as if they would re-invent the wheel."

This one mocks the people here for their enthusiasm, and Pentax for their presumed non-achievement, even though the OP is not in a position to know whether or not Pentax has actually achieved something noteworthy.
02-06-2016, 05:26 AM   #704
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I missed the troll aperently or the severely misinformed loudmouth. Back to rumors then.
02-06-2016, 05:45 AM   #705
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Just another "If i dont need it, its not necessary to make it" . Will always be people who can't see longer then the tip of their own nose.

I know what camera the FF will be..It will for sure make Pentax a stronger and more pro brand..Both APS-C and MF will benefit from that. Let us just be happy some of these people doesn't work at Pentax and are just keyboard warriors
Cannot wait as 12 days to go!
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