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02-12-2016, 02:01 PM   #1156
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QuoteQuote:
I really don't think many amateur birdwatchers are going to invest the many thousands of pounds needed to acquire such a beast.
You are wrong. Check on a serious wildlife photography forum, or a good birdwatching spot. A lot of photographers own 500mm (or other lenses is that range). A few weeks ago I even saw a Sigma 300-800 f5.6, bigest lens I ever saw. The guy tried my 150-450 and said "oh, it's so light!" ^^

QuoteQuote:
Well..That is YOUR opinion! I know what Pentax think/wants, you dont! They want to reach all pro areas..but its not done over the night. It takes time..They will build stone by stone. So dont try to be correct when your not. The only thing that can be discussed, is what order thing comes and when!
Man, you just made my day, thank you!

02-12-2016, 02:14 PM - 2 Likes   #1157
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote

If Ricoh writes off the outdoor photography market they are leaving a good portion of the market to someone else, and this is real money spent by serious people..
Very few people use such lenses. We are not even talking in percentages. More likely ppm
They also make less sense than ever. I bought my 600/4 lens when 200ISO was the limit for high quality imaging. Now we have cropped cameras and ISO values unimaginable in the film days.
A 600/4 lens is extremely difficult in use and handling. They demand perfect techniques. Most who owns these lenses for outdoor use experience that they use them less and less. I'll take the 150-450 and a K-3 any day before a 600/4 and a K-1; not for economic reasons. The former will probably be where I am while the latter will stay home in its trunk....
We only have limited time for photography. You can spend it shooting with a 600/4 and lots hassle, or use the same time shooting with your other lenses and having a good time.
The Pentax 600/4 weights 7kg. A tripod 5kg+ (you really need two point support) and a K-1 probably close to one 1kg. + you certainly want other lenses with you as well. Do the math.
That doesn't mean that Pentax shouldn't make such lenses, but they are not as important or attractive as some think.

How many FA 600/4 have Pentax made? My guess is less than 30.....

Last edited by Pål Jensen; 02-12-2016 at 02:27 PM.
02-12-2016, 03:05 PM   #1158
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Well, I know a guy with a Canon 600mm f/4, and he seems to use it all the time, often with a 1.4x TC when shooting small birds.
02-12-2016, 03:20 PM   #1159
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
For long lenses, I wouldn't mind see a super compact, EDIF 400mm f5.6
I had to look that up. Its very light weight with only 1,2 kg, but its also a very simple construction with only 5 lenses in 3 groups. That will probably not perform very well on any metrics.

I think long lenses often are too large an heavy, and love the idéa of miror lenses. But all of the mirror lenses I found have an old cassegrain design with a central obstruction causing the famous ring bokeh. And only one mirror lens (A sony one) have AF. The ring bokeh is easily constructed away by using an off axis design. Usually that would create lots of other problems, but a coma corrected schiefspiegler design could solve many of those problems. Yes an off axis lens would look ehmm.. unusual, but it would solve large issues like price, length and weight. Pentax have used mirror designs a long time ago. I think its time to bring forward the developments that happened on mirror designs the past couple of decades.

02-12-2016, 03:22 PM - 1 Like   #1160
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Well, I know a guy with a Canon 600mm f/4, and he seems to use it all the time, often with a 1.4x TC when shooting small birds.

Sure, but there are probably more people using fish-eye lenses anyway....
02-12-2016, 03:36 PM   #1161
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
How many FA 600/4 have Pentax made? My guess is less than 30.....
I wouldn't bet on that, you don't have half the earth on PF. It's ofc more but still small figures, that's why you pay good money for those. It's not the same use as a 150-450 ofc and I think I would prefer a 300f4 over the zoom if you need mobility. Canon is designing new compact super tele, this will be more handhold-able and probably sell well even at a very high price point. For sure you cannot ask to have in one year a 300/2.8 a 400 a 500 and a 600 It's redondant and we have a 560. A compact 300/2.8 and 2x TC is a year or two if the FF does well if more realistic I think.
02-12-2016, 03:41 PM   #1162
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
And this only one lens is only the FIRST lens with this nice extra focusmode. Best regards
I'm feeling warm and fuzzy...
02-12-2016, 04:02 PM   #1163
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QuoteQuote:
For sure you cannot ask to have in one year a 300/2.8 a 400 a 500 and a 600 It's redondant and we have a 560. A compact 300/2.8 and 2x TC is a year or two if the FF does well if more realistic I think.
Sure, I'm not asking them for next week ^^. I would personally prefer a 500 f4 over a 300 f2.8 as we already have a few options to reach 300mm, but yes it would be great!


Last edited by timautin; 02-12-2016 at 04:08 PM.
02-12-2016, 04:25 PM   #1164
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QuoteOriginally posted by timautin Quote
Sure, I'm not asking them for next week ^^. I would personally prefer a 500 f4 over a 300 f2.8 as we already have a few options to reach 300mm, but yes it would be great!
Make sense. Rome is not built by one day. This is just a beginning of a new era for both Pentax and pentaxians
Cheers.
02-12-2016, 04:54 PM   #1165
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QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
I had to look that up. Its very light weight with only 1,2 kg, but its also a very simple construction with only 5 lenses in 3 groups. That will probably not perform very well on any metrics.

I think long lenses often are too large an heavy, and love the idéa of miror lenses. But all of the mirror lenses I found have an old cassegrain design with a central obstruction causing the famous ring bokeh. And only one mirror lens (A sony one) have AF. The ring bokeh is easily constructed away by using an off axis design. Usually that would create lots of other problems, but a coma corrected schiefspiegler design could solve many of those problems. Yes an off axis lens would look ehmm.. unusual, but it would solve large issues like price, length and weight. Pentax have used mirror designs a long time ago. I think its time to bring forward the developments that happened on mirror designs the past couple of decades.
Yeah, let's do the mirror zoom 400-600 again that's a very unique lens...

---------- Post added 13-02-16 at 00:56 ----------

Actually, recycling the Fa50/q.4 is a bad idea. Not sharp enough.
They need a modern 50mm.
02-12-2016, 05:13 PM   #1166
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QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
I had to look that up. Its very light weight with only 1,2 kg, but its also a very simple construction with only 5 lenses in 3 groups. That will probably not perform very well on any metrics.
I cannot see where you get the "... will not perform very well ..." from the website you visited. The description suggests that Nikkor was regarded as an excellent performer. I presume you're just guessing about the performance from the specifications?
02-12-2016, 05:20 PM - 1 Like   #1167
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Spec(ulations?) from ????info

"Pentax K-1 will be announced soon. K-1 of the specs you know now, as follows.

- Number of pixels: effective 36.4MP
- Sensor Size: 35.9 x 24.0mm
- Continuous shooting: 6.5 frames / sec.
- ISO range: 100-204800
- GPS built-in
- Media: SD, SDHC, SDXC
- Size: 136.5 x 110 x 85.5mm
- Weight: 925g
The name of Pentax of full-size machine, it seems to be a rumor as K-1. Continuous shooting speed of 6.5 frames / sec, Considering that the Nikon D810 the same 36MP machine is 5 frames / sec., It is quite fast. Also, ISO range D810 is so 51200 in Hi2, it seems to be widely about two stages of the high sensitivity side.

Size is D810 is so 146 x 123 x 81.5mm, sounds like K-1 is slightly smaller. After that, it is where the AF-related specifications, such as the number and arrangement of the distance measuring point is a concern."
02-12-2016, 05:43 PM - 2 Likes   #1168
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Very few people use such lenses. We are not even talking in percentages. More likely ppm
They also make less sense than ever. I bought my 600/4 lens when 200ISO was the limit for high quality imaging. Now we have cropped cameras and ISO values unimaginable in the film days.
A 600/4 lens is extremely difficult in use and handling. They demand perfect techniques. Most who owns these lenses for outdoor use experience that they use them less and less. I'll take the 150-450 and a K-3 any day before a 600/4 and a K-1; not for economic reasons. The former will probably be where I am while the latter will stay home in its trunk....
We only have limited time for photography. You can spend it shooting with a 600/4 and lots hassle, or use the same time shooting with your other lenses and having a good time.
The Pentax 600/4 weights 7kg. A tripod 5kg+ (you really need two point support) and a K-1 probably close to one 1kg. + you certainly want other lenses with you as well. Do the math.
That doesn't mean that Pentax shouldn't make such lenses, but they are not as important or attractive as some think.

How many FA 600/4 have Pentax made? My guess is less than 30.....
Very few people buy DSLR's, especially full frame ones. Very very few. So what percentage of people who spend on a higher end DSLR also spend money on high end lenses?

I'm not suggesting that this is a pot of gold. When Kenspo says that they are focussing on the pro market, what he means is that they are looking for people who spend money for quality camera gear to accomplish what they need to do. A phone isn't good enough. The next market to fall will be the low end dslr, or more realistically, the characteristics of the $2000 plus dslr bodies will be expected in sub $1000 bodies. This is already happening with the $1600 full frame Sony units.

Let me put it differently. I have seen far more 300-600mm lenses in people's hands, not talking about the inexpensive long zooms, than I have seen 645Z units. And the 645Z was a runaway success.

Someone who wants a medium format for whatever reason looks at the market. There are a few choices, the Pentax offering is very very compelling. Someone who wants to buy a long lens to get shots of grizzly bears or eagles or whatever they see looking at the market sees a few different offerings, and Pentax is not there. So they don't get the sale because they don't have a product, and that sale would be body and lens around $15k. Which is odd because they have tough weather resistant bodies, lenses and flashes that are perfect for that market.

There are vibrant and profitable sub markets in photography determined by people with specific requirements that have money to spend. This is one of them. There are others as well. I suspect Ricoh will one by one service these market segments with compelling offerings.

The 150-450 is a decent lens, but someone who wants to get good results needs more, and many will spend to get it. There have been a gradual exit of long lens shooters from Pentax because the offerings are not there. They end up spending lots of money somewhere else. Thousands of dollars. I reckon Ricoh would like to have that cash.
02-12-2016, 05:45 PM   #1169
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
I'll take the 150-450 and a K-3 any day before a 600/4 and a K-1;
I'll take the 600/4 out your hands for you.
I'll even pay shipping
02-12-2016, 05:45 PM   #1170
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Yeah, let's do the mirror zoom 400-600 again that's a very unique lens....
The 400~600mm mirror is available fairly regularly on EBAY for around $400~$600 depending on condition. I looked up a test/review of the lens years back when I was contemplating a purchase, the lens being so compact for traveling. However, the best images obtained were only marginally acceptable with poor contrast (latter is a problem with all mirror lenses). The lens was unique, but in terms of IQ very disappointing.

For a short time I had a Pentax 1000mm f11, the most unsatisfactory lens I've ever used. Went through about 10 rolls of film (360 exposures) and tried everything, including mounting it on a massive converted wooden surveyor's tripod (weight over 20lb), Using it in bright sun, triggering the LX with a cable release, I never obtained a single chrome that was a keeper.

In several comparison tests I've looked through, the Zeiss 500mm f8 Mirotar always comes out as the best of all the mirror lenses, with the Tamron adaptall second, better than a Nikkor or SIgma's 600mm f8. BTW: Leitax does not make a mount conversion for the Mirotar. Apparently the mount is different from that on any other Contax/Yashica lens, and there is insufficient demand to machine such a mount for the Mirotar only.
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