Final Countdown to Feb 25th 2016 (CP+ 2016)

starjedi · 01-26-2016, 11:40 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by northcoastgreg

You can't necessarily go by what you see on the roadmaps, in terms of focal length. Just look at how the DA 20-40 and the DA 150-450 were represented. No way anyone could have guessed the true focal ranges of these zooms from the roadmap.

Given some of the new rumors suggesting that the Pentax FF may retail for as low as $2,000, Pentax probably has to come out with a standard lens in the $500 range, just for those who can barely afford FF but need a standard zoom to go with it, and that's bound to be a "slow" variable aperture lens. After all, it's hard to image, realistically, a high quality DFA 24-105 f4 for much less than $1,000. If you need a fast standard zoom there's always the DFA 24-70 f2.8.

Canon 24-105 F4 is $1000 at bhphoto at this moment but you can find a lot of places sell it around $500-$600... It is usually sold as a kit lens with 5diii or 6d.

I cannot imagine for people who buy $3000 camera , demand $100 24-105 F3.5-5.6, as a much cheaper APS-C camera with any decent lens eg K50+16-50f2.8 is much better than it...

Last edited by starjedi; 01-26-2016 at 12:19 PM.

thibs · 01-26-2016, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by cxdoo

Actually they do. APS-C lens can be made smaller and take the benefit of not needing to cover full FF circle. Also cheaper.
Given the limited production capacity and the focus on FF now, it's reasonable to say that's happening on expense of APS-C.

This is only true for WA to normal FL.

**beachgardener** · 01-26-2016, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by Imp

Like this small? Sorry, couldn't help myself

nice one, should develop into a bigger wee leek by the end of Feb.

bilybianca · 01-26-2016, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by cali92rs

Plenty of folks use FF lenses on their D7200 (and will on the D500) as well as on the 7D mkII.

I'm not so plenty, I'm just one, but I use FF lenses on my Pentax K5. Just counted, I have 15 lenses I do use at least occasionally (I'm not a lens collector) and two of them are APS-C DA lenses, the rest are Pentax FF. K, A, F and FA. All work fine on APS-C, nevertheless I'm looking forwards to using them on a digital Pentax FF body. And then I can also start using the two lenses I don't use on APS-C, the A 15mm and K 28mm Shift.

Kjell

Zygonyx · 01-26-2016, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by bilybianca

I'm not so plenty, And then I can also start using the two lenses I don't use on APS-C, the A 15mm and K 28mm Shift.

Kjell

Yes, good find and very suitable for 35mm

Imp · 01-26-2016, 02:23 PM

Personally I prefer some FF oriented zoom focal lengths better on aps-c. E.G. I would prefer to have a 24-70 2.8 on aps-c than a 16-50 2.8 - I just like it a bit longer. What I don't like is the resulting size and weight increase because the lens is designed for fullframe... and the cost

therefore i'm going to stay with my aps-c zooms

starjedi · 01-26-2016, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by Imp

Personally I prefer some FF oriented zoom focal lengths better on aps-c. E.G. I would prefer to have a 24-70 2.8 on aps-c than a 16-50 2.8 - I just like it a bit longer. What I don't like is the resulting size and weight increase because the lens is designed for fullframe... and the cost

therefore i'm going to stay with my aps-c zooms

Sounds you are a born APS-C user :-). Fuji in last several years did a wonderful jobs in APS-C world as it delivered a lot of high quality APS-C lenses, I mean, APS-C mount and Fast aps-c lenses... Fuji is a very ambitious company as it is rumored to deliver compact mirrorless medium format camera soon...

Anyway, I think in last several years Ricoh/Pentax had shifted a lot of efforts to 645Z and AF part, instead of developing new lenses. A lot of new patents recently released are focused on AF. K1 will be a AF monster! Let's wait and see!

Last edited by starjedi; 01-26-2016 at 05:45 PM.

Imp · 01-26-2016, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by starjedi

Sounds you are a born APS-C user :-)

well yes, I am

but i'm curious what makes you think so? Because I prefer longer focal lengths? I would like to think i'd prefer longer lenses on FF, like a 35-105 rather than a 24-70...

starjedi · 01-26-2016, 06:36 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Imp

well yes, I am

but i'm curious what makes you think so? Because I prefer longer focal lengths? I would like to think i'd prefer longer lenses on FF, like a 35-105 rather than a 24-70...

I am too. It is not easy to use wide angle as it needs more careful composition in many situations. I like FA 31mm on APS-C...

Imp · 01-26-2016, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by starjedi

It is not easy to use wide angle as it needs more careful composition in many situations.

huh, i've never thought of it that way!

Zygonyx · 01-27-2016, 12:10 AM

neither did i.
To the contrary, i think wide angle do help in composition, because it gives you better perspectives and thus allows more original framings.

**Deimos** · 01-27-2016, 12:29 AM

I think they should bring back the idea of the 50mm prime as kit lens. Revise the DA 50 1.8 or even the DFA* 55 1.4 and make it the new kit-lens for the K-1...maybe I am crazy

iudex · 01-27-2016, 01:24 AM

Originally posted by Deimos

I think they should bring back the idea of the 50mm prime as kit lens. Revise the DA 50 1.8 or even the DFA* 55 1.4 and make it the new kit-lens for the K-1...maybe I am crazy

You are not, actually it makes sense to pair FF with standard, i.e. 50mm prime. DA 50/1,8 is APCS (though rumoured to cover FF), but FA 50mm is still relatively cheap and would pair nicely with the K-1.
However it is usual to pair a camera with a zoom kit lens for convenience and since the 24-70 is very expensive (and limited focal range), a cheaper zoom with bigger FR is inevitable. Although in this price league (2000+ USD) there is no need to make the cheapest slow f3,5-5,6 zooms and I hope Ricoh makes something better (constant f4 or at least f3,5-4,5 like the Nikon FF kit zoom).

thibs · 01-27-2016, 01:32 AM

Originally posted by iudex

You are not, actually it makes sense to pair FF with standard, i.e. 50mm prime. DA 50/1,8 is APCS (though rumoured to cover FF), but FA 50mm is still relatively cheap and would pair nicely with the K-1.
However it is usual to pair a camera with a zoom kit lens for convenience and since the 24-70 is very expensive (and limited focal range), a cheaper zoom with bigger FR is inevitable. Although in this price league (2000+ USD) there is no need to make the cheapest slow f3,5-5,6 zooms and I hope Ricoh makes something better (constant f4 or at least f3,5-4,5 like the Nikon FF kit zoom).

Completely agree about the standard zoom and the 50mm prime.
AFAICT, the DA50/1.8 is nothing but an FA (or F or A or M, all the same but maybe a tweak here or there) in cheap clothing with round aperture blades.

Same with DA35/2.4, just an FA35/2 but reworked.

A modern 50/1.4 would be very appropriate, yes in kit too.
I'd opt for the zoom as I already have a couple 50's though and I doubt the olf 28-80/3.5-4.7 powerzoom would shine on an FF modern cam.

rawr · 01-27-2016, 06:47 AM

All the FF brands have at least one cheap kit zoom available:

- Nikkor 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G ED VR Lens
- Canon EF 24-105mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM
- Sony FE 28-70mm F3.5-5.6 OSS

Pentax will probably make one available too, I bet. Having one on offer makes sense.

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01-26-2016, 11:40 AM - 1 Like	#346
starjedi Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: New Jersey Posts: 932 Original Poster	Originally posted by northcoastgreg You can't necessarily go by what you see on the roadmaps, in terms of focal length. Just look at how the DA 20-40 and the DA 150-450 were represented. No way anyone could have guessed the true focal ranges of these zooms from the roadmap. Given some of the new rumors suggesting that the Pentax FF may retail for as low as $2,000, Pentax probably has to come out with a standard lens in the $500 range, just for those who can barely afford FF but need a standard zoom to go with it, and that's bound to be a "slow" variable aperture lens. After all, it's hard to image, realistically, a high quality DFA 24-105 f4 for much less than $1,000. If you need a fast standard zoom there's always the DFA 24-70 f2.8. Canon 24-105 F4 is $1000 at bhphoto at this moment but you can find a lot of places sell it around $500-$600... It is usually sold as a kit lens with 5diii or 6d. I cannot imagine for people who buy $3000 camera , demand $100 24-105 F3.5-5.6, as a much cheaper APS-C camera with any decent lens eg K50+16-50f2.8 is much better than it... Last edited by starjedi; 01-26-2016 at 12:19 PM.

01-26-2016, 01:04 PM	#347
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by cxdoo Actually they do. APS-C lens can be made smaller and take the benefit of not needing to cover full FF circle. Also cheaper. Given the limited production capacity and the focus on FF now, it's reasonable to say that's happening on expense of APS-C. This is only true for WA to normal FL.

01-26-2016, 01:14 PM	#348
beachgardener Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,842	Originally posted by Imp Like this small? Sorry, couldn't help myself nice one, should develop into a bigger wee leek by the end of Feb.

01-26-2016, 01:36 PM	#349
bilybianca Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Hassleholm, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 334	Originally posted by cali92rs Plenty of folks use FF lenses on their D7200 (and will on the D500) as well as on the 7D mkII. I'm not so plenty, I'm just one, but I use FF lenses on my Pentax K5. Just counted, I have 15 lenses I do use at least occasionally (I'm not a lens collector) and two of them are APS-C DA lenses, the rest are Pentax FF. K, A, F and FA. All work fine on APS-C, nevertheless I'm looking forwards to using them on a digital Pentax FF body. And then I can also start using the two lenses I don't use on APS-C, the A 15mm and K 28mm Shift. Kjell

01-26-2016, 02:14 PM	#350
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	Originally posted by bilybianca I'm not so plenty, And then I can also start using the two lenses I don't use on APS-C, the A 15mm and K 28mm Shift. Kjell Yes, good find and very suitable for 35mm

01-26-2016, 02:23 PM	#351
Imp Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Washington, DC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,749	Personally I prefer some FF oriented zoom focal lengths better on aps-c. E.G. I would prefer to have a 24-70 2.8 on aps-c than a 16-50 2.8 - I just like it a bit longer. What I don't like is the resulting size and weight increase because the lens is designed for fullframe... and the cost therefore i'm going to stay with my aps-c zooms

01-26-2016, 05:17 PM	#352
starjedi Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: New Jersey Posts: 932 Original Poster	Originally posted by Imp Personally I prefer some FF oriented zoom focal lengths better on aps-c. E.G. I would prefer to have a 24-70 2.8 on aps-c than a 16-50 2.8 - I just like it a bit longer. What I don't like is the resulting size and weight increase because the lens is designed for fullframe... and the cost therefore i'm going to stay with my aps-c zooms Sounds you are a born APS-C user :-). Fuji in last several years did a wonderful jobs in APS-C world as it delivered a lot of high quality APS-C lenses, I mean, APS-C mount and Fast aps-c lenses... Fuji is a very ambitious company as it is rumored to deliver compact mirrorless medium format camera soon... Anyway, I think in last several years Ricoh/Pentax had shifted a lot of efforts to 645Z and AF part, instead of developing new lenses. A lot of new patents recently released are focused on AF. K1 will be a AF monster! Let's wait and see! Last edited by starjedi; 01-26-2016 at 05:45 PM.

01-26-2016, 05:53 PM	#353
Imp Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Washington, DC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,749	Originally posted by starjedi Sounds you are a born APS-C user :-) well yes, I am but i'm curious what makes you think so? Because I prefer longer focal lengths? I would like to think i'd prefer longer lenses on FF, like a 35-105 rather than a 24-70...

01-26-2016, 06:36 PM - 1 Like	#354
starjedi Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: New Jersey Posts: 932 Original Poster	Originally posted by Imp well yes, I am but i'm curious what makes you think so? Because I prefer longer focal lengths? I would like to think i'd prefer longer lenses on FF, like a 35-105 rather than a 24-70... I am too. It is not easy to use wide angle as it needs more careful composition in many situations. I like FA 31mm on APS-C...

01-26-2016, 08:02 PM	#355
Imp Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Washington, DC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,749	Originally posted by starjedi It is not easy to use wide angle as it needs more careful composition in many situations. huh, i've never thought of it that way!

01-27-2016, 12:10 AM	#356
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	neither did i. To the contrary, i think wide angle do help in composition, because it gives you better perspectives and thus allows more original framings.

01-27-2016, 12:29 AM	#357
Deimos Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Kingdom of Wonder Posts: 1,777	I think they should bring back the idea of the 50mm prime as kit lens. Revise the DA 50 1.8 or even the DFA* 55 1.4 and make it the new kit-lens for the K-1...maybe I am crazy

01-27-2016, 01:24 AM	#358
iudex Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 87	Originally posted by Deimos I think they should bring back the idea of the 50mm prime as kit lens. Revise the DA 50 1.8 or even the DFA* 55 1.4 and make it the new kit-lens for the K-1...maybe I am crazy You are not, actually it makes sense to pair FF with standard, i.e. 50mm prime. DA 50/1,8 is APCS (though rumoured to cover FF), but FA 50mm is still relatively cheap and would pair nicely with the K-1. However it is usual to pair a camera with a zoom kit lens for convenience and since the 24-70 is very expensive (and limited focal range), a cheaper zoom with bigger FR is inevitable. Although in this price league (2000+ USD) there is no need to make the cheapest slow f3,5-5,6 zooms and I hope Ricoh makes something better (constant f4 or at least f3,5-4,5 like the Nikon FF kit zoom).

01-27-2016, 01:32 AM	#359
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by iudex You are not, actually it makes sense to pair FF with standard, i.e. 50mm prime. DA 50/1,8 is APCS (though rumoured to cover FF), but FA 50mm is still relatively cheap and would pair nicely with the K-1. However it is usual to pair a camera with a zoom kit lens for convenience and since the 24-70 is very expensive (and limited focal range), a cheaper zoom with bigger FR is inevitable. Although in this price league (2000+ USD) there is no need to make the cheapest slow f3,5-5,6 zooms and I hope Ricoh makes something better (constant f4 or at least f3,5-4,5 like the Nikon FF kit zoom). Completely agree about the standard zoom and the 50mm prime. AFAICT, the DA50/1.8 is nothing but an FA (or F or A or M, all the same but maybe a tweak here or there) in cheap clothing with round aperture blades. Same with DA35/2.4, just an FA35/2 but reworked. A modern 50/1.4 would be very appropriate, yes in kit too. I'd opt for the zoom as I already have a couple 50's though and I doubt the olf 28-80/3.5-4.7 powerzoom would shine on an FF modern cam.

01-27-2016, 06:47 AM	#360
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	All the FF brands have at least one cheap kit zoom available: - Nikkor 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G ED VR Lens - Canon EF 24-105mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM - Sony FE 28-70mm F3.5-5.6 OSS Pentax will probably make one available too, I bet. Having one on offer makes sense.