Final Countdown to Feb 25th 2016 (CP+ 2016)

Glorfindelrb · 02-12-2016, 11:32 AM

A 600f4 would cost way more than 4k$, the 560f5.6 is a very good compromise which allows people like you and me to own a good super tele. A 600f4 in a catalog have less use than an owned 560f5.6

A compact super tele or a 300/2.8 makes more sense but I'm not buying it, I prefer a 15-30 or a portrait lens or a dfa* 200macro.

**WPRESTO** · 02-12-2016, 11:40 AM

Wonder if Sigma will reissue their 15~30mm and 12~24 in K-mount. The latter was an amazing achievement in zoom lens design.

starjedi · 02-12-2016, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by Glorfindelrb

A 600f4 would cost way more than 4k$, the 560f5.6 is a very good compromise which allows people like you and me to own a good super tele. A 600f4 in a catalog have less use than an owned 560f5.6

A compact super tele or a 300/2.8 makes more sense but I'm not buying it, I prefer a 15-30 or a portrait lens or a dfa* 200macro.

600 f4 (latest version) will be well above $10000!

Cynog Ap Brychan · 02-12-2016, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by WPRESTO

Wonder if Sigma will reissue their 15~30mm and 12~24 in K-mount. The latter was an amazing achievement in zoom lens design.

I'm glad I kept my K-mount Mark 1 Sigma 12-24mm. I've also still got the 20-40 mm f2.8 and 28-70mm f2.8 Sigmas from my film days. They will serve me well enough until I can get the 15-30 and 24-70 mm, methinks.

bertwert · 02-12-2016, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by beholder3

For months and months there is a good FA* 600/4 copy available on fleabay.
In actual markting view there is absolutely no customer potential for long fast lenses obviously.
In forum terms: it's proven that nobody actually wants them when it comes down to actually buying it with real money.

Everyone who really has the funds for these lenses and really wants them already has gotten one. It's not that difficult after all. The great 560 is already available.

Instead of buying those lenses typical forum Pentaxians have their bags full of excuses.
And people with their bags only full of excuses are a group of people that marketeers rightfully ignore today and tomorrow.

Yes you're right.
I want but cannot afford.

beholder3 · 02-12-2016, 12:20 PM - **1 Like**

Anyone discussing where the market is just needs to look at latest CIPA figures for lenses sold.

Take the total lens sales monetary figure and divide it by units sold to get the average sales price of a ILC lens.

Then compare it to the lenses called for here.

Then think.

jonlg · 02-12-2016, 12:24 PM

Agreed - unless Pentax want to go for the professional sports market there is no point developing ultra fast telephotos really - I really don't think many amateur birdwatchers are going to invest the many thousands of pounds needed to acquire such a beast. Pentax are much more likely to attract semi and fully professional wedding and portrait photographers plus those shooting fashion and advertising. There's a lot more of them, it's a much bigger market and they're right to go for it.

jonlg

kenspo · 02-12-2016, 12:37 PM - **4 Likes**

Originally posted by jonlg

Agreed - unless Pentax want to go for the professional sports market there is no point developing ultra fast telephotos really - I really don't think many amateur birdwatchers are going to invest the many thousands of pounds needed to acquire such a beast. Pentax are much more likely to attract semi and fully professional wedding and portrait photographers plus those shooting fashion and advertising. There's a lot more of them, it's a much bigger market and they're right to go for it.

jonlg

Well..That is YOUR opinion! I know what Pentax think/wants, you dont! They want to reach all pro areas..but its not done over the night. It takes time..They will build stone by stone. So dont try to be correct when your not. The only thing that can be discussed, is what order thing comes and when!

I dont shoot birds at all, but i still would needed a fast telephoto. But good thing they ask us pros what we need, and not what amateurs dont need.

Zygonyx · 02-12-2016, 12:42 PM

I'm keeping my FA*600/4 for sure.... 6,4 K€ used but like new was a good enough price... I wouldn't afford anymore now, because other priorities...

ogl · 02-12-2016, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by starjedi

600 f4 (latest version) will be well above $10000!

I remember that FA*600/4 could be ordered at ~ $6000 at BHPhoto more than 10 years ago. This lens could be sold only by special order.

New DFA600/4 could be close to $10000. You are right.

pathdoc · 02-12-2016, 12:50 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Zygonyx

I'm keeping my FA*600/4 for sure...

That's not a lens I would get rid of in a hurry either, if I had one - among other things, getting another one could be both very difficult and very, VERY expensive! Even if I weren't using it, I think I'd have to keep it, pack silica gel around it in its box, and take it out every now and then to give it a bit of a workout.

jonlg · 02-12-2016, 12:55 PM - **3 Likes**

Kenspo, If they really are intending to re-establish themselves across even the pro markets that require very fast ultra telephotos then I'm delighted because their thinking is even more ambitious than I had thought. Believe me I would love to see Pentax back at the top table like that again. Unlike you I have genuinely no insights into what their thinking is but I just felt that there's a huge development cost associated with such lenses and I think Nikon and Canon are very solidly entrenched in it, so it didn't jump off the page to me as a prime area to target at this time. As you say though it's a gradual process though and I had no intention of causing offence!

I think we all want to see Pentax get back where they belong and I think we all feel that under Ricoh they have their best chance in 25 years of doing it - lets hope they can!

From where I sit, I see a very strong product line already and some superb hardware. The big weakness in my view is in the marketing and distribution area. Pentax make great cameras and lenses, they just need to be much more visible in the market so people buy them! The pro market has a halo effect for sure for the same reasons omega pay a fortune for james Bond to wear their watches. Those rows and rows of white lenses at sports and other events are a good marketing tool, as are pro's who shoot commercial fashion and advertising. Why do people buy canon and Nikon APSC cameras in droves? I think it's because that's what they see pro's using so they assume they are the best. They don't stop to think that their EOS 600D is nothing like an EOS 1 but as long as it sells cameras it doesn't matter!

Anyway, it's certainly and interesting time to be a pentax fan!

jonlg

derekkite · 02-12-2016, 01:10 PM

Remember guys. Most photos taken with short lenses can be taken with a phone.

Repeat that. Most photos taken with a short lens can be taken with a phone.

Now, think carefully who would be in the market for something that can't be taken with a phone. That is the remaining market, both on the pro and amateur side.

If Ricoh writes off the outdoor photography market they are leaving a good portion of the market to someone else, and this is real money spent by serious people.

The only DSLR purchase I know of among my acquaintances are either wedding gear, scenery gear or wildlife gear. And video gear, which is another market in itself.

Everything else can be captured by a phone.

i5_david · 02-12-2016, 01:57 PM

I am highly excited about this crazy construction which contains and upholds the LCD unit. Those Photos look wild and I hop that this thing is working and no weak point in such an seemingly awesome camera. lets hope for some more leaks... maybe a video :-P

timautin · 02-12-2016, 02:01 PM

Quote:

I really don't think many amateur birdwatchers are going to invest the many thousands of pounds needed to acquire such a beast.

You are wrong. Check on a serious wildlife photography forum, or a good birdwatching spot. A lot of photographers own 500mm (or other lenses is that range). A few weeks ago I even saw a Sigma 300-800 f5.6, bigest lens I ever saw. The guy tried my 150-450 and said "oh, it's so light!" ^^

Quote:

Well..That is YOUR opinion! I know what Pentax think/wants, you dont! They want to reach all pro areas..but its not done over the night. It takes time..They will build stone by stone. So dont try to be correct when your not. The only thing that can be discussed, is what order thing comes and when!

Man, you just made my day, thank you!

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02-12-2016, 11:32 AM	#1141
Glorfindelrb Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 364	A 600f4 would cost way more than 4k$, the 560f5.6 is a very good compromise which allows people like you and me to own a good super tele. A 600f4 in a catalog have less use than an owned 560f5.6 A compact super tele or a 300/2.8 makes more sense but I'm not buying it, I prefer a 15-30 or a portrait lens or a dfa* 200macro.

02-12-2016, 11:40 AM	#1142
WPRESTO Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Massachusetts Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 59,108	Wonder if Sigma will reissue their 15~30mm and 12~24 in K-mount. The latter was an amazing achievement in zoom lens design.

02-12-2016, 11:41 AM	#1143
starjedi Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: New Jersey Posts: 932 Original Poster	Originally posted by Glorfindelrb A 600f4 would cost way more than 4k$, the 560f5.6 is a very good compromise which allows people like you and me to own a good super tele. A 600f4 in a catalog have less use than an owned 560f5.6 A compact super tele or a 300/2.8 makes more sense but I'm not buying it, I prefer a 15-30 or a portrait lens or a dfa* 200macro. 600 f4 (latest version) will be well above $10000!

02-12-2016, 11:48 AM	#1144
Cynog Ap Brychan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Gloucester Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by WPRESTO Wonder if Sigma will reissue their 15~30mm and 12~24 in K-mount. The latter was an amazing achievement in zoom lens design. I'm glad I kept my K-mount Mark 1 Sigma 12-24mm. I've also still got the 20-40 mm f2.8 and 28-70mm f2.8 Sigmas from my film days. They will serve me well enough until I can get the 15-30 and 24-70 mm, methinks.

02-12-2016, 12:11 PM	#1145
bertwert Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Golden, BC Posts: 15,173	Originally posted by beholder3 For months and months there is a good FA* 600/4 copy available on fleabay. In actual markting view there is absolutely no customer potential for long fast lenses obviously. In forum terms: it's proven that nobody actually wants them when it comes down to actually buying it with real money. Everyone who really has the funds for these lenses and really wants them already has gotten one. It's not that difficult after all. The great 560 is already available. Instead of buying those lenses typical forum Pentaxians have their bags full of excuses. And people with their bags only full of excuses are a group of people that marketeers rightfully ignore today and tomorrow. Yes you're right. I want but cannot afford.

02-12-2016, 12:20 PM - 1 Like	#1146
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	Anyone discussing where the market is just needs to look at latest CIPA figures for lenses sold. Take the total lens sales monetary figure and divide it by units sold to get the average sales price of a ILC lens. Then compare it to the lenses called for here. Then think.

02-12-2016, 12:24 PM	#1147
jonlg Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: West Sussex Posts: 128	Agreed - unless Pentax want to go for the professional sports market there is no point developing ultra fast telephotos really - I really don't think many amateur birdwatchers are going to invest the many thousands of pounds needed to acquire such a beast. Pentax are much more likely to attract semi and fully professional wedding and portrait photographers plus those shooting fashion and advertising. There's a lot more of them, it's a much bigger market and they're right to go for it. jonlg

02-12-2016, 12:37 PM - 4 Likes	#1148
kenspo Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Oslo Posts: 2,207	Originally posted by jonlg Agreed - unless Pentax want to go for the professional sports market there is no point developing ultra fast telephotos really - I really don't think many amateur birdwatchers are going to invest the many thousands of pounds needed to acquire such a beast. Pentax are much more likely to attract semi and fully professional wedding and portrait photographers plus those shooting fashion and advertising. There's a lot more of them, it's a much bigger market and they're right to go for it. jonlg Well..That is YOUR opinion! I know what Pentax think/wants, you dont! They want to reach all pro areas..but its not done over the night. It takes time..They will build stone by stone. So dont try to be correct when your not. The only thing that can be discussed, is what order thing comes and when! I dont shoot birds at all, but i still would needed a fast telephoto. But good thing they ask us pros what we need, and not what amateurs dont need.

02-12-2016, 12:42 PM	#1149
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	I'm keeping my FA*600/4 for sure.... 6,4 K€ used but like new was a good enough price... I wouldn't afford anymore now, because other priorities...

02-12-2016, 12:47 PM	#1150
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by starjedi 600 f4 (latest version) will be well above $10000! I remember that FA*600/4 could be ordered at ~ $6000 at BHPhoto more than 10 years ago. This lens could be sold only by special order. New DFA600/4 could be close to $10000. You are right.

02-12-2016, 12:50 PM - 1 Like	#1151
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Originally posted by Zygonyx I'm keeping my FA*600/4 for sure... That's not a lens I would get rid of in a hurry either, if I had one - among other things, getting another one could be both very difficult and very, VERY expensive! Even if I weren't using it, I think I'd have to keep it, pack silica gel around it in its box, and take it out every now and then to give it a bit of a workout.

02-12-2016, 12:55 PM - 3 Likes	#1152
jonlg Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: West Sussex Posts: 128	Kenspo, If they really are intending to re-establish themselves across even the pro markets that require very fast ultra telephotos then I'm delighted because their thinking is even more ambitious than I had thought. Believe me I would love to see Pentax back at the top table like that again. Unlike you I have genuinely no insights into what their thinking is but I just felt that there's a huge development cost associated with such lenses and I think Nikon and Canon are very solidly entrenched in it, so it didn't jump off the page to me as a prime area to target at this time. As you say though it's a gradual process though and I had no intention of causing offence! I think we all want to see Pentax get back where they belong and I think we all feel that under Ricoh they have their best chance in 25 years of doing it - lets hope they can! From where I sit, I see a very strong product line already and some superb hardware. The big weakness in my view is in the marketing and distribution area. Pentax make great cameras and lenses, they just need to be much more visible in the market so people buy them! The pro market has a halo effect for sure for the same reasons omega pay a fortune for james Bond to wear their watches. Those rows and rows of white lenses at sports and other events are a good marketing tool, as are pro's who shoot commercial fashion and advertising. Why do people buy canon and Nikon APSC cameras in droves? I think it's because that's what they see pro's using so they assume they are the best. They don't stop to think that their EOS 600D is nothing like an EOS 1 but as long as it sells cameras it doesn't matter! Anyway, it's certainly and interesting time to be a pentax fan! jonlg

02-12-2016, 01:10 PM	#1153
derekkite Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nelson B.C. Posts: 3,782	Remember guys. Most photos taken with short lenses can be taken with a phone. Repeat that. Most photos taken with a short lens can be taken with a phone. Now, think carefully who would be in the market for something that can't be taken with a phone. That is the remaining market, both on the pro and amateur side. If Ricoh writes off the outdoor photography market they are leaving a good portion of the market to someone else, and this is real money spent by serious people. The only DSLR purchase I know of among my acquaintances are either wedding gear, scenery gear or wildlife gear. And video gear, which is another market in itself. Everything else can be captured by a phone.

02-12-2016, 01:57 PM	#1154
i5_david Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 332	I am highly excited about this crazy construction which contains and upholds the LCD unit. Those Photos look wild and I hop that this thing is working and no weak point in such an seemingly awesome camera. lets hope for some more leaks... maybe a video :-P

02-12-2016, 02:01 PM	#1155
timautin Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 346	Quote: I really don't think many amateur birdwatchers are going to invest the many thousands of pounds needed to acquire such a beast. You are wrong. Check on a serious wildlife photography forum, or a good birdwatching spot. A lot of photographers own 500mm (or other lenses is that range). A few weeks ago I even saw a Sigma 300-800 f5.6, bigest lens I ever saw. The guy tried my 150-450 and said "oh, it's so light!" ^^ Quote: Well..That is YOUR opinion! I know what Pentax think/wants, you dont! They want to reach all pro areas..but its not done over the night. It takes time..They will build stone by stone. So dont try to be correct when your not. The only thing that can be discussed, is what order thing comes and when! Man, you just made my day, thank you!