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10-23-2015, 08:23 AM   #271
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QuoteOriginally posted by shardulm Quote
Don't tell me you wouldn't want it at that price????
I would not want the kind of FF DSLR designed for that price.

10-23-2015, 08:26 AM   #272
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QuoteOriginally posted by max_pyne Quote
i say it is going to be priced between 1800-2500 at start...
Consider the discounts being offered on the 645Z right now. $2100, eh? "If you're considering getting the 645Z, the full-frame makes the ideal backup camera. Get your medium-format body now, and have enough discount to pick up the full frame when it's released." Just a theory, but you never know...
10-23-2015, 08:35 AM - 1 Like   #273
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QuoteOriginally posted by richard balonglong Quote
1) ISO - redundant with the ISO button, but maybe there's a new function for ISO settings?
For all but one position of the function dial, the ISO button won't be redundant.

Only if one assigns ISO control to the new multi-dial, there could be redundancy (but the ISO button could potentially support different ISO setting jumps or have some other function in this particular case). If you control exposure compensation with the multi-dial then the ISO button is still as valid as it always has been.

QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
if you squint just right it might be some sort of display. The only problem with this theory is that we already have a top LCD right next door - so what will this tell us that the other doesn't?
The top LCD "next door" is not that big, though.
Hence an additional display that adapts to whatever the function of the multi-dial is, could make sense.

However, I don't want to get too attached to the idea as it may turn out that there isn't an extra display and the camera does not deserve to disappoint purely on the basis that speculations were running wild.

I think we agree that its not a big deal, either way.
10-23-2015, 08:46 AM - 3 Likes   #274
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QuoteOriginally posted by filmamigo Quote
If you are going to copy, why not use a mature and intuitive design like the Fuji X-T1?
AFAIC, a design that involves fixed dial positions for any shooting parameter is not "mature" but archaic. It made sense when cameras where little more than light sealed film holding boxes with some mechanics and perhaps some primitive metering.

Modern cameras, in particular those from Pentax, support smart shooting modes, such as the HyperProgram and HyperManual modes in which there is a fluid change between the automatic setting of a parameter (e.g., shutter speed) and its manual control. A simple "A" (for automatic) setting on a hardware dial with fixed printings on it does not cut it for such extremely useful modes.

The, in principle good, direct feedback of parameter values afforded by old school fixed dials, that does not even require the camera to be turned on, does not work anymore if a mode can influence the parameter automatically continuously or only once, initiated by the user.

I'm convinced that the old-school dials of many Fuji cameras and the Nikon Df are successful because they have enormous nostalgic appeal, but that in terms of usability they are inferior to modern soft dials. To see that is is true, we don't even have to consider the flexibility provided to users by soft dials to freely map any shooting parameter control to one of many dials that work best for them (-> see above).

So, isn't true that modern controls are worse in terms of ergonomics. On the contrary, the "retro" trend literally is taking steps backwards in terms of ergonomics. I see that it makes sense for a fully manually controlled camera (that may support metering feedback) but once you start any kind of camera-assisted setting of parameters, the classic dial design fails (unless dials are motorised and automatically adjust their position).


Last edited by Class A; 10-23-2015 at 08:55 AM.
10-23-2015, 08:57 AM   #275
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QuoteOriginally posted by lawsonstone Quote
... Is this a real, functioning camera or yet another model?
In DPR, asahi man suggests in this thread that it is real and working camera.
'Body is ready.... it is NOT a mock up ..".

But, alas, he doesn't appear to know about the internals of the camera - eg the AF system.
10-23-2015, 09:06 AM   #276
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
It's not going to be cheap. Most probably priced between a D750 and D810.
I am also thinking that it will be priced in the ball park range between D750 and D810, and obviously packed with features that neither of those have yet. I am interested to see how this FF development unfold.

---------- Post added 10-23-2015 at 12:11 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
AFAIC, a design that involves fixed dial positions for any shooting parameter is not "mature" but archaic. It made sense when cameras where little more than light sealed film holding boxes with some mechanics and perhaps some primitive metering.

Modern cameras, in particular those from Pentax, support smart shooting modes, such as the HyperProgram and HyperManual modes in which there is a fluid change between the automatic setting of a parameter (e.g., shutter speed) and its manual control. A simple "A" (for automatic) setting on a hardware dial with fixed printings on it does not cut it for such extremely useful modes.

The, in principle good, direct feedback of parameter values afforded by old school fixed dials, that does not even require the camera to be turned on, does not work anymore if a mode can influence the parameter automatically continuously or only once, initiated by the user.

I'm convinced that the old-school dials of many Fuji cameras and the Nikon Df are successful because they have enormous nostalgic appeal, but that in terms of usability they are inferior to modern soft dials. To see that is is true, we don't even have to consider the flexibility provided to users by soft dials to freely map any shooting parameter control to one of many dials that work best for them (-> see above).

So, isn't true that modern controls are worse in terms of ergonomics. On the contrary, the "retro" trend literally is taking steps backwards in terms of ergonomics. I see that it makes sense for a fully manually controlled camera (that may support metering feedback) but once you start any kind of camera-assisted setting of parameters, the classic dial design fails (unless dials are motorised and automatically adjust their position).
I am with you on this... I don't mind the addition of buttons as long as it is adding more functional and convenience value, not ecstatic value such as in the old school type. TBH, none of the Nikon DF and Fuji cameras appeal to me all, of course, just IMHO.
10-23-2015, 09:12 AM - 9 Likes   #277
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Or the ninjas got to him... and how he's in some forest, with a shovel in his hands...

Yep, I'm curious to hear what our friendly-yet-dangerously-looking Pentax Ambassador has to say.
Im hiding! This is crazy!
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10-23-2015, 09:16 AM   #278
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Im hiding! This is crazy!
we found you! Have you find out anything you can share with us... Or just tell us if you have hold the holy grail

10-23-2015, 09:17 AM   #279
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Im hiding! This is crazy!
Good move, don't make any comments yet, let the wild imagination and fun begins!!
10-23-2015, 09:20 AM - 1 Like   #280
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Im hiding! This is crazy!
Isn't it more like:
10-23-2015, 09:20 AM - 4 Likes   #281
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I will eventually be buying this camera. I am somewhat but not completely surprised that there are still people whining about such trivial things though. If you are afraid the screen will break then keep it nestled into its protective magnesium alloy alcove and never articulate it. And don't let your kids handle it lol! If they are that disobedient then maybe invest in a safe too? I had a Sony a55 with a small hinge that articulated every direction and even hiking with it I never had a problem. If there are too many confusing dials and buttons for you they still leave you "auto mode." There is nothing to complain about; this camera has everything, and from what I see so far this camera should prove to be phenomenal.
10-23-2015, 09:23 AM   #282
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QuoteOriginally posted by filmamigo Quote
Why? I'm no fan of the Nikon control layout for their top-tier cameras. There is nothing obvious about that control design, it's a product of 1980's microprocessor-driven thinking that ignored ergonomics.

If you are going to copy, why not use a mature and intuitive design like the Fuji X-T1?



But Pentax knows that a traditional design would irk the kids ... so they've tried something different. Seems like a good compromise to me. Better than the confusing compromise attempted by the Nikon Df.
because I do not like dedicated dials
10-23-2015, 09:25 AM - 3 Likes   #283
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I really dont know every detail..yet..But belive me, its gonna kick ass!
10-23-2015, 09:26 AM   #284
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10-23-2015, 09:38 AM - 2 Likes   #285
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This will be the first full frame Pentax DSLR. Something to celebrate! (Pity that there are still a small number of trolls on this site, but that's life )

Perhaps like their first DSLR, the *ist D, it will be fully loaded and priced accordingly, with a follow up lower spec models which, like the *ist DS and DL, will be built to a price.

To me, it looks like it might be a game changer, (like the HMS Dreadnought if you will). It offers excellent functionality when you want it, is customisable, has most of what Pentaxians have asked for, but is still able to be used like the K-5 and K-3 which we have become accustomed to, and like so much.

Good reference has been made to the Z-1p and the MZ-S, and one might include the 645N also - all ground breaking cameras in their time with some features that are still ahead of the game.

I have recently acquired a K-3 II, a fantastic camera which I thought would be all I could want for - 645Z apart! Now that Pentax are giving us an insight into this beauty, I am thinking again and I seriously expect that I will end up buying their new FF. (It would be an easier decision had Pentax not dropped the price of the 645Z). In the meantime, the K-3 II will serve me well.

Either way, looks like we are in for a real treat. Well done you Ricoh/Pentax guys, I confidently predict that this ff camera is going to be a real winner for them.....and us!

Last edited by ronniemac; 10-23-2015 at 09:44 AM.
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