Some Crappy shots of the new FF Camera

waterfall · 10-29-2015, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by shardulm

Taking the controls out of menus and putting them out on dials and buttons is a big deal. And I am sure Pentax thought of this before you did. They have been meaningfully aggressive with the buttons and dials and I am sure they did a superb job with these dials. It may make it look a little more knobby from the look and feel perspective.. but when you use it you don't care about the look but the feel. Having said it may have a learning curve that once you get used to cannot go back to anything else. (Its like the center joystick IBM thinkpads invented which a lot of people hated but people swear by the usability).

Well the buttons and such are nice. Except for those of us who crawl, climb, bump the camera. I recently found one hundred photos that had been accidentally shot on Enhanced Mode rather than the default Bright. I thought my White Balance was broken, but far worse, all of the colors were screwy. This shoot was in JPEG, so fixing it was troublesome and not very effective. The four-way controller button on the right of my K3 apparently was bumped on a ladder when the camera swung against it, then I shot everything one-handed, leaning out from the ladder and obviously had no instant review capabilities. I kind of like the security of buried menu options, personally.

wkraus · 10-29-2015, 03:20 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by waterfall

Well the buttons and such are nice. Except for those of us who crawl, climb, bump the camera. ...

Lock button!

Dave L · 10-29-2015, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by 12345

8k 3 inch to 4 inch screen on a back of DSLR????

4k screen is doable at reasonable cost though! My 2 year old Samsung S3 mini has that kind of pixel density and cost me under £100 for the entire phone. Processing power and battery drain affects things though, naturally.

Cynog Ap Brychan · 10-30-2015, 12:28 AM

Originally posted by Dave L

Processing power and battery drain affects things though, naturally.

That's probably why cameras don't have them. Do we really need a 4K screen on the back of our cameras, though, I wonder?

Class A · 10-30-2015, 01:03 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

Do we really need a 4K screen on the back of our cameras, though, I wonder?

Shirley, these posters must be joking.

On a more serious note, I wish there were an option to request a higher quality preview for checking focus, for instance. Currently, it seems that one can only zoom into the preview JPEG stored along with the RAW file. This means that magnification beyond 8x or so, mainly shows preview artefacts, rather than allowing to assess image detail.

There should be an option to request a 1:1 rendering for critical reviewing.

Fogel70 · 10-30-2015, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

That's probably why cameras don't have them. Do we really need a 4K screen on the back of our cameras, though, I wonder?

Not really, they are too small to make use of that high resolution (unless we start to use a loupe to check focus on the screen instead of zooming in).
Full HD screens is more than enough until the screens on the back have increased to more than 7".

max_pyne · 10-30-2015, 04:07 AM

i was joking but wouldn't it be cool to get a loupe/magnifying glass to your DSLR... or how about 8k output though HDMI port...

drougge · 10-30-2015, 06:36 AM

Originally posted by Class A

On a more serious note, I wish there were an option to request a higher quality preview for checking focus, for instance. Currently, it seems that one can only zoom into the preview JPEG stored along with the RAW file. This means that magnification beyond 8x or so, mainly shows preview artefacts, rather than allowing to assess image detail.

There should be an option to request a 1:1 rendering for critical reviewing.

Some cameras put good quality JPEGs in the RAWs, and some don't. Some let you select the JPEG quality for RAWs, some don't. My K5 uses low quality JPEGs with no way to change that, my Q uses whatever settings you select for JPEGs also for the JPEG in the RAWs.

So I have some hope that we will at least have the ability to get high quality JPEGs in the RAWs in future (maybe even current?) Pentax DSLRs. (Selecting RAW+JPEG doesn't help, at least not on the K5, it will use the low quality JPEG from the RAW for previews.)

12345 · 10-30-2015, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by drougge

my Q uses whatever settings you select for JPEGs also for the JPEG in the RAWs.

Wow, that would sure be nice! I've often wished that the JPG previews were more "high quality"; as it is, they are so compressed that they're really almost worthless, both for sharpness and color/histogram information.

I would gladly take 1-2 more MBs added to the RAW file for the added bonus of having an actual preview that is useful!

y0chang · 10-30-2015, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by 12345

I would gladly take 1-2 more MBs added to the RAW file for the added bonus of having an actual preview that is useful!

remember though that adds 1-2 mb to the imaging pipeline which would slow down the throughput of the camera. I hope we don't have to ask for uncompressed raws like the sony folks.

Rico · 10-30-2015, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by y0chang

remember though that adds 1-2 mb to the imaging pipeline which would slow down the throughput of the camera. I hope we don't have to ask for uncompressed raws like the sony folks.

That is why Pentax needs to use UHS-II device controller so they can change the label on the SD card door from SDHC-I to SDHC-II. This makes a huge difference in the bus speed of the camera.

For reference: SD Association standards.

12345 · 10-30-2015, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by y0chang

remember though that adds 1-2 mb to the imaging pipeline which would slow down the throughput of the camera.

By throughput, do you mean writing to the card? How would it be any different from shooting in RAW+JPG?

Originally posted by y0chang

I hope we don't have to ask for uncompressed raws like the sony folks.

Well, I should say! That should be a "no-brainer". The whole purpose in RAW is to keep the extra info that compressed JPG photos throw out.
IMO "Compressed RAW" is actually an oxymoron.

enoeske · 10-30-2015, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by 12345

By throughput, do you mean writing to the card? How would it be any different from shooting in RAW+JPG?

Well, I should say! That should be a "no-brainer". The whole purpose in RAW is to keep the extra info that compressed JPG photos throw out.
IMO "Compressed RAW" is actually an oxymoron.

Lossless compressed is fine. In the same way that data can be stored into a smaller .zip or .rar file. Compression is your friend. You don't want a loss of data. That's lossy compression. You don't want data tossed out like a jpeg

12345 · 10-30-2015, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by enoeske

Lossless compressed is fine. In the same way that data can be stored into a smaller .zip or .rar file. Compression is your friend. You don't want a loss of data. That's lossy compression. You don't want data tossed out like a jpeg

Agreed, I guess I should have specified!

Was the Sony compression lossless or lossy then?

Class A · 10-30-2015, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by 12345

Was the Sony compression lossless or lossy then?

It became lossy in certain extreme circumstances (very high local contrast).

Note that Sony recently announced an entirely lossless option for its newer A7 cameras.

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10-29-2015, 02:53 PM	#526
waterfall Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Northern Minnesota Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,812	Originally posted by shardulm Taking the controls out of menus and putting them out on dials and buttons is a big deal. And I am sure Pentax thought of this before you did. They have been meaningfully aggressive with the buttons and dials and I am sure they did a superb job with these dials. It may make it look a little more knobby from the look and feel perspective.. but when you use it you don't care about the look but the feel. Having said it may have a learning curve that once you get used to cannot go back to anything else. (Its like the center joystick IBM thinkpads invented which a lot of people hated but people swear by the usability). Well the buttons and such are nice. Except for those of us who crawl, climb, bump the camera. I recently found one hundred photos that had been accidentally shot on Enhanced Mode rather than the default Bright. I thought my White Balance was broken, but far worse, all of the colors were screwy. This shoot was in JPEG, so fixing it was troublesome and not very effective. The four-way controller button on the right of my K3 apparently was bumped on a ladder when the camera swung against it, then I shot everything one-handed, leaning out from the ladder and obviously had no instant review capabilities. I kind of like the security of buried menu options, personally.

10-29-2015, 03:20 PM - 1 Like	#527
wkraus Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Near Vienna, Austria Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,059	Originally posted by waterfall Well the buttons and such are nice. Except for those of us who crawl, climb, bump the camera. ... Lock button!

10-29-2015, 06:55 PM	#528
Dave L Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hampshire UK Posts: 306	Originally posted by 12345 8k 3 inch to 4 inch screen on a back of DSLR???? 4k screen is doable at reasonable cost though! My 2 year old Samsung S3 mini has that kind of pixel density and cost me under £100 for the entire phone. Processing power and battery drain affects things though, naturally.

10-30-2015, 12:28 AM	#529
Cynog Ap Brychan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Gloucester Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by Dave L Processing power and battery drain affects things though, naturally. That's probably why cameras don't have them. Do we really need a 4K screen on the back of our cameras, though, I wonder?

10-30-2015, 01:03 AM - 2 Likes	#530
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Do we really need a 4K screen on the back of our cameras, though, I wonder? Shirley, these posters must be joking. On a more serious note, I wish there were an option to request a higher quality preview for checking focus, for instance. Currently, it seems that one can only zoom into the preview JPEG stored along with the RAW file. This means that magnification beyond 8x or so, mainly shows preview artefacts, rather than allowing to assess image detail. There should be an option to request a 1:1 rendering for critical reviewing.

10-30-2015, 01:11 AM	#531
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan That's probably why cameras don't have them. Do we really need a 4K screen on the back of our cameras, though, I wonder? Not really, they are too small to make use of that high resolution (unless we start to use a loupe to check focus on the screen instead of zooming in). Full HD screens is more than enough until the screens on the back have increased to more than 7".

10-30-2015, 04:07 AM	#532
max_pyne Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: zurich Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 409	i was joking but wouldn't it be cool to get a loupe/magnifying glass to your DSLR... or how about 8k output though HDMI port...

10-30-2015, 06:36 AM	#533
drougge Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Malmö Photos: Gallery Posts: 787	Originally posted by Class A On a more serious note, I wish there were an option to request a higher quality preview for checking focus, for instance. Currently, it seems that one can only zoom into the preview JPEG stored along with the RAW file. This means that magnification beyond 8x or so, mainly shows preview artefacts, rather than allowing to assess image detail. There should be an option to request a 1:1 rendering for critical reviewing. Some cameras put good quality JPEGs in the RAWs, and some don't. Some let you select the JPEG quality for RAWs, some don't. My K5 uses low quality JPEGs with no way to change that, my Q uses whatever settings you select for JPEGs also for the JPEG in the RAWs. So I have some hope that we will at least have the ability to get high quality JPEGs in the RAWs in future (maybe even current?) Pentax DSLRs. (Selecting RAW+JPEG doesn't help, at least not on the K5, it will use the low quality JPEG from the RAW for previews.)

10-30-2015, 06:57 AM	#534
12345 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 520	Originally posted by drougge my Q uses whatever settings you select for JPEGs also for the JPEG in the RAWs. Wow, that would sure be nice! I've often wished that the JPG previews were more "high quality"; as it is, they are so compressed that they're really almost worthless, both for sharpness and color/histogram information. I would gladly take 1-2 more MBs added to the RAW file for the added bonus of having an actual preview that is useful!

10-30-2015, 09:43 AM	#535
y0chang Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: United States Posts: 793	Originally posted by 12345 I would gladly take 1-2 more MBs added to the RAW file for the added bonus of having an actual preview that is useful! remember though that adds 1-2 mb to the imaging pipeline which would slow down the throughput of the camera. I hope we don't have to ask for uncompressed raws like the sony folks.

10-30-2015, 10:36 AM	#536
Rico Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,204	Originally posted by y0chang remember though that adds 1-2 mb to the imaging pipeline which would slow down the throughput of the camera. I hope we don't have to ask for uncompressed raws like the sony folks. That is why Pentax needs to use UHS-II device controller so they can change the label on the SD card door from SDHC-I to SDHC-II. This makes a huge difference in the bus speed of the camera. For reference: SD Association standards.

10-30-2015, 11:02 AM	#537
12345 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 520	Originally posted by y0chang remember though that adds 1-2 mb to the imaging pipeline which would slow down the throughput of the camera. By throughput, do you mean writing to the card? How would it be any different from shooting in RAW+JPG? Originally posted by y0chang I hope we don't have to ask for uncompressed raws like the sony folks. Well, I should say! That should be a "no-brainer". The whole purpose in RAW is to keep the extra info that compressed JPG photos throw out. IMO "Compressed RAW" is actually an oxymoron.

10-30-2015, 11:05 AM	#538
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	Originally posted by 12345 By throughput, do you mean writing to the card? How would it be any different from shooting in RAW+JPG? Well, I should say! That should be a "no-brainer". The whole purpose in RAW is to keep the extra info that compressed JPG photos throw out. IMO "Compressed RAW" is actually an oxymoron. Lossless compressed is fine. In the same way that data can be stored into a smaller .zip or .rar file. Compression is your friend. You don't want a loss of data. That's lossy compression. You don't want data tossed out like a jpeg

10-30-2015, 11:07 AM	#539
12345 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 520	Originally posted by enoeske Lossless compressed is fine. In the same way that data can be stored into a smaller .zip or .rar file. Compression is your friend. You don't want a loss of data. That's lossy compression. You don't want data tossed out like a jpeg Agreed, I guess I should have specified! Was the Sony compression lossless or lossy then?

10-30-2015, 11:37 AM	#540
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by 12345 Was the Sony compression lossless or lossy then? It became lossy in certain extreme circumstances (very high local contrast). Note that Sony recently announced an entirely lossless option for its newer A7 cameras.