Shots of screen and dials on the new FF Pentax

**filoxophy** · 01-15-2016, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by ogl

Where is joystick for AF?

Fujifilm X-Pro2 has it....

I too would love an AF points joystick. They should put it right where the Play button is shown on the K-1, IIRC. I personally don't care for play/delete buttons under my right thumb--the K-5/3 position is perfect.

Rico · 01-15-2016, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by ogl

Where is joystick for AF?

Fujifilm X-Pro2 has it....

ogl the Joystick is next to the LCD at the top right. On DPR there are close ups of it. The spinning animated view you can stop the animation then when you hover your cursor over the green brackets you get a close up of that part of the camera.

No tilt LCD on this Fuji Pro2s. The OVF/EVF looks really nice. The X70 with the 28mm (35mm eq FOV) has a tilt LCD. This camera is a direct competitor to the Ricoh GRII.

pathdoc · 01-15-2016, 04:20 PM

Oh hell, Alex - sorry to hear that. That's awful. Kind thoughts to you both.

Zygonyx · 01-15-2016, 10:44 PM

I'd prefer it to be eye directed

**filoxophy** · 01-15-2016, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by Rico

ogl the Joystick is next to the LCD at the top right. On DPR there are close ups of it. The spinning animated view you can stop the animation then when you hover your cursor over the green brackets you get a close up of that part of the camera.

No tilt LCD on this Fuji Pro2s. The OVF/EVF looks really nice. The X70 with the 28mm (35mm eq FOV) has a tilt LCD. This camera is a direct competitor to the Ricoh GRII.

I think he was saying "where is the joystick for AF on the Pentax FF?"

Zygonyx · 01-15-2016, 11:23 PM

No need of joystick for 27 AF sensors isn't it?

ogl · 01-16-2016, 12:35 AM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

No need of joystick for 27 AF sensors isn't it?

yes... but I hope for new AF system of K-1.

---------- Post added 01-16-2016 at 12:36 AM ----------

Originally posted by Rico

ogl the Joystick is next to the LCD at the top right. On DPR there are close ups of it. The spinning animated view you can stop the animation then when you hover your cursor over the green brackets you get a close up of that part of the camera.

I mean - K-1...

---------- Post added 01-16-2016 at 12:37 AM ----------

Originally posted by filoxophy

I too would love an AF points joystick. They should put it right where the Play button is shown on the K-1, IIRC. I personally don't care for play/delete buttons under my right thumb--the K-5/3 position is perfect.

Will final version of K-1 be different...? And we see only prototype now...

Opened question.

**Digitalis** · 01-16-2016, 01:06 AM - **1 Like**

One thing I have learned as a Canon and Nikon photographer is that having a dedicated control for selecting AF points is crucial for action photography. Relying on the camera to set the AF point is simply too unreliable with all but the most advanced AF modules.

With an increasing number of AF points a dedicated 8 way joystick becomes the most effective method. Canon at one point did have Eye-control AF (EFC) but that has been abandoned due to the amount of supporting electronics needed to implement it, and the inherent operating conditions it required. The EFC system used IR LEDs that would shine onto your eye as you peer through the viewfinder. The EFC used IR sensitive sensors to record the infrared reflecting off your eye and calculate the nearest focus point. A computer in the camera then would examine this data and decide which of the focus points is closest to that point and selects it.

The EFC system required the use of a eyecup which was problematic to wearers of glasses, as the IR light leaking in from the increased eyepoint caused problems with the accuracy of the EFC system.

kadajawi · 01-16-2016, 01:38 AM

Why so complicated? The 5 way thing was fine for selecting the AF point, as long as it works consistently. That was the case when there was still a Fn button on Pentax cameras. Press left, you select the next AF point to the left. Press Fn and then left, and it is white balance or whatever. No thinking required, it goes right into muscle memory. The current solution with having 2 modes you can switch between by long pressing OK is terrible.

D1N0 · 01-16-2016, 05:09 AM

I was using AF points on the K10D, but on the K-5 it's just not intuitive

thibs · 01-16-2016, 06:03 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

I was using AF points on the K10D, but on the K-5 it's just not intuitive

Completely agree. Way easier/faster on the K10D.

Class A · 01-16-2016, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by kadajawi

The current solution with having 2 modes you can switch between by long pressing OK is terrible.

The "long press" approach has not been the "current" approach for a while now.

The K-3 has a dedicated button to switch the modes and the K-1 retains that very same button.

I hope the button can be configured so that it only temporarily activates the functions (imstead of focus point selection). I think a simple "toggle" approach is inferior but at least the long press is gone.

FWIW, the four-way controller is really an eight-way controller due to the shape of the buttons that facilitates pressing two at once. I haven't used one myself, but I think I prefer this approach over a joystick.

kadajawi · 01-16-2016, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by Class A

The "long press" approach has not been the "current" approach for a while now.

The K-3 has a dedicated button to switch the modes and the K-1 retains that very same button.

I hope the button can be configured so that it only temporarily activates the functions (imstead of focus point selection). I think a simple "toggle" approach is inferior but at least the long press is gone.

FWIW, the four-way controller is really an eight-way controller due to the shape of the buttons that facilitates pressing two at once. I haven't used one myself, but I think I prefer this approach over a joystick.

As long as you can't just do it temporarily, as you've mentioned too, it is all the same for me. A dedicated button makes no difference to long pressing the OK button to me, just that it's even more of a shame because if there is a dedicated button it is just a matter of modifying the firmware!

And yeah, I was using AF points on my *istDS all the time. I rarely, if ever, do so on my K-5. Mostly I do it when I'm in live view, camera on a tripod, and precision matters. We can't be the only one to have complained about this, so why does Pentax keep insisting doing things their way? I guess that's just how Pentax rolls, it's not the first time.

johnmflores · 01-16-2016, 01:19 PM

After using a camera where you can set the focus point on a touchscreen, any long press, dedicated button, or any process that requires tap tap tap tap tap tap tap to move the focus point just feels so slow.

Kunzite · 01-16-2016, 01:33 PM

At least the tap tap tap process doesn't involve poking your eye with your finger when trying to set the focus point on a touchscreen while looking through the viewfinder

01-16-2016, 01:06 AM - 1 Like	#203
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	One thing I have learned as a Canon and Nikon photographer is that having a dedicated control for selecting AF points is crucial for action photography. Relying on the camera to set the AF point is simply too unreliable with all but the most advanced AF modules. With an increasing number of AF points a dedicated 8 way joystick becomes the most effective method. Canon at one point did have Eye-control AF (EFC) but that has been abandoned due to the amount of supporting electronics needed to implement it, and the inherent operating conditions it required. The EFC system used IR LEDs that would shine onto your eye as you peer through the viewfinder. The EFC used IR sensitive sensors to record the infrared reflecting off your eye and calculate the nearest focus point. A computer in the camera then would examine this data and decide which of the focus points is closest to that point and selects it. The EFC system required the use of a eyecup which was problematic to wearers of glasses, as the IR light leaking in from the increased eyepoint caused problems with the accuracy of the EFC system. Last edited by Digitalis; 01-16-2016 at 01:16 AM.

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01-15-2016, 03:09 PM	#196
filoxophy Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 1,132	Originally posted by ogl Where is joystick for AF? Fujifilm X-Pro2 has it.... I too would love an AF points joystick. They should put it right where the Play button is shown on the K-1, IIRC. I personally don't care for play/delete buttons under my right thumb--the K-5/3 position is perfect.

01-15-2016, 03:44 PM	#197
Rico Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,204	Originally posted by ogl Where is joystick for AF? Fujifilm X-Pro2 has it.... ogl the Joystick is next to the LCD at the top right. On DPR there are close ups of it. The spinning animated view you can stop the animation then when you hover your cursor over the green brackets you get a close up of that part of the camera. No tilt LCD on this Fuji Pro2s. The OVF/EVF looks really nice. The X70 with the 28mm (35mm eq FOV) has a tilt LCD. This camera is a direct competitor to the Ricoh GRII.

01-15-2016, 04:20 PM	#198
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Oh hell, Alex - sorry to hear that. That's awful. Kind thoughts to you both.

01-15-2016, 10:44 PM	#199
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	I'd prefer it to be eye directed

01-15-2016, 11:18 PM	#200
filoxophy Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 1,132	Originally posted by Rico ogl the Joystick is next to the LCD at the top right. On DPR there are close ups of it. The spinning animated view you can stop the animation then when you hover your cursor over the green brackets you get a close up of that part of the camera. No tilt LCD on this Fuji Pro2s. The OVF/EVF looks really nice. The X70 with the 28mm (35mm eq FOV) has a tilt LCD. This camera is a direct competitor to the Ricoh GRII. I think he was saying "where is the joystick for AF on the Pentax FF?"

01-15-2016, 11:23 PM	#201
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	No need of joystick for 27 AF sensors isn't it?

01-16-2016, 12:35 AM	#202
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by Zygonyx No need of joystick for 27 AF sensors isn't it? yes... but I hope for new AF system of K-1. ---------- Post added 01-16-2016 at 12:36 AM ---------- Originally posted by Rico ogl the Joystick is next to the LCD at the top right. On DPR there are close ups of it. The spinning animated view you can stop the animation then when you hover your cursor over the green brackets you get a close up of that part of the camera. I mean - K-1... ---------- Post added 01-16-2016 at 12:37 AM ---------- Originally posted by filoxophy I too would love an AF points joystick. They should put it right where the Play button is shown on the K-1, IIRC. I personally don't care for play/delete buttons under my right thumb--the K-5/3 position is perfect. Will final version of K-1 be different...? And we see only prototype now... Opened question.

01-16-2016, 01:38 AM	#204
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Why so complicated? The 5 way thing was fine for selecting the AF point, as long as it works consistently. That was the case when there was still a Fn button on Pentax cameras. Press left, you select the next AF point to the left. Press Fn and then left, and it is white balance or whatever. No thinking required, it goes right into muscle memory. The current solution with having 2 modes you can switch between by long pressing OK is terrible.

01-16-2016, 05:09 AM	#205
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	I was using AF points on the K10D, but on the K-5 it's just not intuitive

01-16-2016, 06:03 AM	#206
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by D1N0 I was using AF points on the K10D, but on the K-5 it's just not intuitive Completely agree. Way easier/faster on the K10D.

01-16-2016, 08:08 AM	#207
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by kadajawi The current solution with having 2 modes you can switch between by long pressing OK is terrible. The "long press" approach has not been the "current" approach for a while now. The K-3 has a dedicated button to switch the modes and the K-1 retains that very same button. I hope the button can be configured so that it only temporarily activates the functions (imstead of focus point selection). I think a simple "toggle" approach is inferior but at least the long press is gone. FWIW, the four-way controller is really an eight-way controller due to the shape of the buttons that facilitates pressing two at once. I haven't used one myself, but I think I prefer this approach over a joystick.

01-16-2016, 11:15 AM	#208
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by Class A The "long press" approach has not been the "current" approach for a while now. The K-3 has a dedicated button to switch the modes and the K-1 retains that very same button. I hope the button can be configured so that it only temporarily activates the functions (imstead of focus point selection). I think a simple "toggle" approach is inferior but at least the long press is gone. FWIW, the four-way controller is really an eight-way controller due to the shape of the buttons that facilitates pressing two at once. I haven't used one myself, but I think I prefer this approach over a joystick. As long as you can't just do it temporarily, as you've mentioned too, it is all the same for me. A dedicated button makes no difference to long pressing the OK button to me, just that it's even more of a shame because if there is a dedicated button it is just a matter of modifying the firmware! And yeah, I was using AF points on my *istDS all the time. I rarely, if ever, do so on my K-5. Mostly I do it when I'm in live view, camera on a tripod, and precision matters. We can't be the only one to have complained about this, so why does Pentax keep insisting doing things their way? I guess that's just how Pentax rolls, it's not the first time.

01-16-2016, 01:19 PM	#209
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	After using a camera where you can set the focus point on a touchscreen, any long press, dedicated button, or any process that requires tap tap tap tap tap tap tap to move the focus point just feels so slow.

01-16-2016, 01:33 PM	#210
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	At least the tap tap tap process doesn't involve poking your eye with your finger when trying to set the focus point on a touchscreen while looking through the viewfinder