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10-30-2015, 11:08 AM   #31
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Financials of Ricoh cameras is essentially of interest if you are a share holder. Other than that, the lifetime of digital camera such such that most of you have purchased a new camera before the older one stopped functioning. So, don't be worried, if Pentax is still around, you'll buy your favorite Pentax camera, and if Pentax is gone , you'll buy something else. I don't think there is a shortage of camera brands and camera models. The only problem that I see if people worrying about Pentax and taking no photographs.

10-30-2015, 11:12 AM   #32
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The compact camera market is declining due to smartphones. The high-end camera market is in decline due to market saturation. In the boom years DSLR sales soared due to the switch from film to digital, and then subsequent rapid increase in technology. Now that most everyone has switched over from film and the technology has matured, far less people need to buy a new camera.

---------- Post added 10-30-15 at 02:18 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Smartphones have nearly completely replaced PnS digital cameras in just 5 years, especially among consumers under 40. Digital ILC's are also in decline, but for different reasons - ILC USERS and first-time consumers converted to digital and replaced their first body with a better one from 2005-2013, then the rate of incremental improvement eroded replacement sales; children grew up; Flickr lost its allure; China and other emerging markets' torrid growth slowed, etc. dSLR sales have slowed dramatically the last 24 months in large measure because enthusiast wealthy consumers bought other toys - GoPros, drones, tablets - and at the margin prefer to pay debt rather than replace a perfectly fine ILC with an only marginally better new one.
You beat me to it, and said it better!

Last edited by rangercarp; 10-30-2015 at 11:19 AM.
10-30-2015, 11:18 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Ron, did you not read p8?

"Sales in the Other segment decreased by 11.4% as compared to the previous corresponding period, to 53.7 billion due to sale of clothing
business and so on.

As a result of increased lease profit and so on, operating profit in the Other segment increased significantly as compared

to the previous corresponding period, to 1.3 billion."
Yes I did.
10-30-2015, 11:23 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I predict the base unit volume for ILC's is the 2004 area, before the big conversion. We're only half way there.
People often forget that ILC sales are still far above where they were ten years ago. I think 2004 to 2007 levels is a very good guess.

10-30-2015, 11:27 AM   #35
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Looking at an estimated sales of 50 million dollar for Pentax in three months, then GoPro is 8x bigger.
10-30-2015, 01:27 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Yes I did.
Then you should have concluded that clothing was a loss, cameras and leasing was a profit, right?

What was your logic?
10-30-2015, 02:07 PM   #37
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"PentaxIsDoomed", perhaps?

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I am certain that point-and-shoot and compact camera markets are diving ("decline" understates the case) because of smartphones.
We have two twenty-something daughters. Back when they were young, receiving a point-and-shoot (film) camera from Daddy on the Christmas when you were eight was almost part of of the growing-up process.
Now, they use their smartphones. As a part-time college teacher, I see the same devotion to smartphone photography on the part of the slightly-younger group.
I have friends who had a K-1000 thirty years ago, but switched to point-and-shoot when digital cameras came out, and most of them now seem to be using smartphones.

I cannot guarantee that all of this is cutting into Pentax's business, but it is cutting into someone's business, and it is causing a seismic shift in Pentax's environment.
All right, but please try to match this on Ricoh Imaging's product portfolio: almost no compacts, those who exists are either consumer-level rugged cameras or industrial-level rugged cameras.
10-30-2015, 02:13 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Then you should have concluded that clothing was a loss, cameras and leasing was a profit, right?

What was your logic?
It's not that easy. So clothing was a loss, why they sold it. But maybe the profit is coming from selling it. Maybe they sold 500 more 645Z's and 10.000 less Q's. Having less sales, but more profit.

The declining in overseas sales is K-mount camera's and lenses.

10-30-2015, 03:24 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
It isn't easy to see how the camera's do, since they are part of the "other" also contains g some other activity's. It looks like the fall in sales is around -20 % And that is big. Over the half year the result is less down then the last three months, so sales are declining faster.

Maybe someone can dive into this.

My explanation to this growing declining is that the sales are lowering over time since the full-frame was anounced and that push g the inventory into the sales channels is slowing down rapidly. This will probably be so until the full frame arrives in spring.

This is pure speculation. No basis in fact. Let me try my hand at this...

The drop in sales is due to supply channel issues related to the Theta and Q.

My speculation is as speculative as yours. It's easy!
10-30-2015, 03:31 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
This is pure speculation. No basis in fact. Let me try my hand at this...

The drop in sales is due to supply channel issues related to the Theta and Q.

My speculation is as speculative as yours. It's easy!
Don't worry, there will be a new report in three months from now.
10-30-2015, 04:02 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by quant2325 Quote
You guys do not understand financial analysis:
1) 711.3 billion is the Office Imaging sales, while Other segment operating profit (including Pentax) was all of 6.1 billion on 53.7 billion of sales. Pentax is a pimple on the butt of Ricoh's total sales and earnings.
2) You need to spreadsheet several years of data and adjust the numbers for accounting changes to see trends. But there is really no need to do this in regards to the photo segment. Why? Because industry data says it all: The photo market is in a huge decline due to the smartphone. The inflection point was 3-4 years ago. It is over. The smartphone is taking over the world. Apple has enough cash to buy out Nikon by writing a check. It won't because it can get a much higher ROR doing other things, e.g. an Apple car. The smartphone is the future of photography.
3) Canikon has greater financial issues than Ricoh. Why? Ricoh is less dependent upon photography for its cash flow. Canon and Nikon must continue to find growth through acquisitions. Ricoh doesn't have to panic.
4) Dontworryaboutit. There will be a FF. Outside of sports, the DSLR will likely be a dinosaur someday, anyway. At least Ricoh is financially stable.
5) I'll either get the FF or upgrade to the K-3 when used ones go below $450 (after the FF is released). It could be the last DSLR I purchase. At some point soon, perhaps in 4 years, my smartphone will snap into a case that will give me DSLR-like performance. Yeah, that is available now, but it will take a few years to get it right.
6) Ricoh's ROE and ROA are dropping. WTH, it is still not going out of business anytime soon.
You guy probably dont understand photography stating this ...
10-30-2015, 04:33 PM   #42
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I don't really know how this affects Pentax DSLR's and lenses.

Other than I'm sure it does.

I have a feeling other posters to this thread are probably in the same boat.
10-30-2015, 06:09 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
It's not that easy. So clothing was a loss, why they sold it. But maybe the profit is coming from selling it. Maybe they sold 500 more 645Z's and 10.000 less Q's. Having less sales, but more profit.

The declining in overseas sales is K-mount camera's and lenses.
My understanding of operating profit is that it is precisely that; the profit from the businesses that are being operated. A small search on the web yields this definition: "The profit earned from a firm's normal core business operations." Since the clothing business has been sold it is not operating under Ricoh anymore. And as selling a business isn't part of the core business operations I don't expect profit from this sale being reported in the operating profit of the other activities. The good news is that the profits are on the up! We can only speculate about the reasons why that is happening.
QuoteOriginally posted by CarlJF Quote
Yes, and this is the important line: the "Other" division is making more money than they were. Which is good news, and simply means that the clothing business was dragging down the whole division. They were selling a lot of clothes, but at a loss... It's certainly better to sell less things but make money on them than selling a lot and be in the red.
This seems the most likely explanation. Another possibility is that the clothing business was not contributing ore losing money (break even) and Pentax sales surged to such a extend that profits were up. In short these financial reports don't really give any insight in how Ricoh Imaging is doing. But being in a profitable part of the company that is reporting more profit is a good thing in my book.

(I do hope anybody understands anything about the stuff I wrote above. English certainly is not my first language!)

Last edited by Fries; 10-30-2015 at 06:16 PM.
10-31-2015, 01:30 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Looking at an estimated sales of 50 million dollar for Pentax in three months, then GoPro is 8x bigger.
Why not? GoPro produces cheap electronic gadgets and sells them and some accessories for a good profit. They are marketleader and sell to the masses and probably get some good profit, as the production and development cost can't be that high. Ricoh sells optomechanical photographic tools with integrated electronics. Take the 645z, or K3II, or K1 and some lenses, much more complex with mirror and prism, IBIS, metering and AF, imaging processor. High cost, low volume, but can still be profitable, like surveying equipment, 3d Laserscanners, Tachymetres... there are companies who have their specialieation and can find their income in not mass market businesses.
10-31-2015, 08:02 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
You guy probably dont understand photography stating this ...
The guy (that is me) probably does understand photography. The chip and processor in a DSLR are relatively small, and getting smaller (Moore's Law is still functioning). At some point getting a bigger sensor or packing in more megapixels isn't going to make a difference for most photographers. I think what the K-3 has now is good enough for non-professionals. There is no reason why a smartphone can't hold a 24mp APS-sized sensor in another 4 years, with a separate processor either in the phone or more likely in a snap-in case. A 24mp processor will be "old" in four years, so there is no need for sunk cost (R&D, manufacturing, etc.). Just slap it in the phone, add a snap-in case that will accept the lenses you want, and you now have a smartphone with DSLR-like performance. It may not have the ergonomics or focusing speed of a DSLR, but it will be a heck of a lot lighter to take while hiking, skiing or on any kind of vacation.

The lower end of the camera market has indeed fallen off a cliff due to the smartphone. Remember Garmin? You use the smartphone for directions now too, right? Young people today want instant gratification, e.g., selfies, posting immediately on Facebook or Instagram, etc. The cameras with the buttons and knobs are for old people like me who believe in "death before the green button." The next generations want ease of use. The smartphone gives it to them.

---------- Post added 10-31-15 at 08:20 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Fries Quote
My understanding of operating profit is that it is precisely that; the profit from the businesses that are being operated. A small search on the web yields this definition: "The profit earned from a firm's normal core business operations." Since the clothing business has been sold it is not operating under Ricoh anymore. And as selling a business isn't part of the core business operations I don't expect profit from this sale being reported in the operating profit of the other activities. The good news is that the profits are on the up! We can only speculate about the reasons why that is happening.

This seems the most likely explanation. Another possibility is that the clothing business was not contributing ore losing money (break even) and Pentax sales surged to such a extend that profits were up. In short these financial reports don't really give any insight in how Ricoh Imaging is doing. But being in a profitable part of the company that is reporting more profit is a good thing in my book.

(I do hope anybody understands anything about the stuff I wrote above. English certainly is not my first language!)
A CFO can goose "profits" all days long in a variety of ways I can talk for a long time about. Often times the CFO is more interested in shareholder value, which isn't always tied to a quarterly "profit" number. Far more important is cash flow from operations (Note: If you ever see CFFO trending downwards while reported profits are up...beware and double beware). The "other" category is usually reserved for smaller segments that aren't important to overall earnings, sometimes CFOs bury bad results so they are not seen in "other", and for other purposes. Again, an analyst will spreadsheet everything and start looking for trends, any changes in accounting methods, etc. I don't follow this name, but I have given a cursory look at the trends in this industry. The trends aren't bullish.

Last edited by quant2325; 10-31-2015 at 08:24 PM.
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