CIPA statistics for September - those DSLRs just won't die

Kunzite · 11-03-2015, 04:12 PM - **1 Like**

Integer overflow?

**Clarkey** · 11-03-2015, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by philbaum

With all the kerfuffle over EVF/OVF, one of the more interesting market trends is IBIS. Pentax was like the only company out there dedicated to IBIS for large sensors. Sony had discarded IBIS for Nex APS cameras, even for early A7, but then readopted it for A7II type reissues. This change of mind has been interesting to watch.

Looking at reviews of Sony mirrorless, reviewers are gushing over IBIS - its now "back in fashion". Something Pentax had all along. For low light, IBIS is really helpful, IMO. Part of the reviewer's enthusiasm probably is related to its use for video to be honest.

For IBIS and other reasons, Sony is demanding and getting higher prices for its FF and lenses, than Cannikon are getting for their mid-range FF. This has got to be a disappointment for Nikon in particular, who seemed to want the FF premium camera niche all to themselves. Will IBIS help pave the way for good sales of Pentax FF. Very possibly when combined with low cost advantages of Pentax refreshed lenses. Remember that Pentax and Sony need to get only a fraction of Canikon's market share to turn a profit, while for Canikon, any dent in their large marketshare is a loss.

Originally posted by Zygonyx

Yeah, and it wasn't difficult for Sony to migrate IBIS tech. from Olympus after taking their shares...

Just a reminder that the Sony A900 was the first larger sensor camera to sport IBS.

**clackers** · 11-03-2015, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by Clarkey

Just a reminder that the Sony A900 was the first larger sensor camera to sport IBS.

Wasn't five way, which is the Olympus method.

Zygonyx · 11-04-2015, 03:32 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Where are 645Z dxo numbers?

Originally posted by clackers

Exactly. I'm sure they'll come up with some excuse.

I will have 3 contacts within the next couple of days, and try to figure up what is happening after that...
maybe also ask them on their dedicated forum ?

RonHendriks1966 · 11-04-2015, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

I will have 3 contacts within the next couple of days, and try to figure up what is happening after that...
maybe also ask them on their dedicated forum ?

It's taking long. No idea why.

davidsladek · 11-04-2015, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

It's taking long. No idea why.

Redesigning the charts and indicators for 100+ pct?

Franc · 11-04-2015, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by davidsladek

Redesigning the charts and indicators for 100+ pct?

it won't:
Professional portrait and landscape photographers often use medium-format cameras because of their superb performance under controlled lighting conditions. However, as these cameras are definitely not designed for so-called “action photography” scenarios, they generally do not perform well with respect to DxO Labs’ Low-Light ISO metric. Because of this inherent low-light limitation, medium-format cameras do not receive top marks on the DxOMark Sensor Overall Score, even though they may show outstanding performance with respect to Color Depth or Dynamic Range.

eyeswideshut · 11-04-2015, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by Franc

it won't:
Professional portrait and landscape photographers often use medium-format cameras because of their superb performance under controlled lighting conditions. However, as these cameras are definitely not designed for so-called “action photography” scenarios, they generally do not perform well with respect to DxO Labs’ Low-Light ISO metric. Because of this inherent low-light limitation, medium-format cameras do not receive top marks on the DxOMark Sensor Overall Score, even though they may show outstanding performance with respect to Color Depth or Dynamic Range.

Might this not be alleviated with the new CMOS sensor?

normhead · 11-04-2015, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by Franc

it won't:
Professional portrait and landscape photographers often use medium-format cameras because of their superb performance under controlled lighting conditions. However, as these cameras are definitely not designed for so-called “action photography” scenarios, they generally do not perform well with respect to DxO Labs’ Low-Light ISO metric. Because of this inherent low-light limitation, medium-format cameras do not receive top marks on the DxOMark Sensor Overall Score, even though they may show outstanding performance with respect to Color Depth or Dynamic Range.

Actually low light performance is a huge part of DxO's rating and the 645z blows away all their favourite cameras in low light. And you call landscape photography "controlled light>" Well no, that's erroneous. You take a studio with no windows, and s few racks of lights on the ceiling and 20 or thirty movable light platforms around the edges, that is controlled light. Outside in the sunshine with various atmospheric effects, humidity, and the odd cloud from time to time, that is not controlled light. IN fact you have no control over the light. You take what you get. Landscape photographers love the 645z because of the incredible resolution and dynamic range. So, yes I would expect an evaluation of the 645z to exceed all other cameras, even in DxOs biased opinion, in everything but sports.

**Rondec** · 11-04-2015, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by Franc

it won't:
Professional portrait and landscape photographers often use medium-format cameras because of their superb performance under controlled lighting conditions. However, as these cameras are definitely not designed for so-called “action photography” scenarios, they generally do not perform well with respect to DxO Labs’ Low-Light ISO metric. Because of this inherent low-light limitation, medium-format cameras do not receive top marks on the DxOMark Sensor Overall Score, even though they may show outstanding performance with respect to Color Depth or Dynamic Range.

The problem in the past with the 645D was that it had a less than cutting edge CCD. 645Z has similar tech to D800, but with a larger sensor and therefore should have improvement in high iso score consistent with that.

DXO Mark score is based on color depth, high iso score, and dynamic range (at low iso) and the 645Z should outperform current generation full frame cameras.

RonHendriks1966 · 11-04-2015, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

The problem in the past with the 645D was that it had a less than cutting edge CCD. 645Z has similar tech to D800, but with a larger sensor and therefore should have improvement in high iso score consistent with that.

DXO Mark score is based on color depth, high iso score, and dynamic range (at low iso) and the 645Z should outperform current generation full frame cameras.

I don't know if this is True. The sensor may have been cutting edge, but being a ccd with limitations compared to todays cmos.

**clackers** · 11-04-2015, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

I don't know if this is True. The sensor may have been cutting edge, but being a ccd with limitations compared to todays cmos.

The 645Z has a CMOS sensor.

**Rondec** · 11-04-2015, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

I don't know if this is True. The sensor may have been cutting edge, but being a ccd with limitations compared to todays cmos.

645z is CMOS. 645D is CCD. 645z is a Sony sensor made with current tech and it would make sense that it should test pretty well (if DXO Mark ever gets around to testing it).

thibs · 11-04-2015, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by clackers

The 645Z has a CMOS sensor.

Yep but Ron was talking about the 645D AFAICT.

**Rondec** · 11-04-2015, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by thibs

Yep but Ron was talking about the 645D AFAICT.

But the 645D was already tested and it scored 82 with a high iso score of 1262. The question is whether there was much improvement with the 645z sensor versus current high end sensors.

11-03-2015, 05:51 PM	#78
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Clarkey Just a reminder that the Sony A900 was the first larger sensor camera to sport IBS. Wasn't five way, which is the Olympus method. Last edited by clackers; 11-03-2015 at 07:26 PM.

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11-03-2015, 04:12 PM - 1 Like	#76
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132 Original Poster	Integer overflow?

11-03-2015, 05:33 PM	#77
Clarkey Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brampton, ON, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,456	Originally posted by philbaum With all the kerfuffle over EVF/OVF, one of the more interesting market trends is IBIS. Pentax was like the only company out there dedicated to IBIS for large sensors. Sony had discarded IBIS for Nex APS cameras, even for early A7, but then readopted it for A7II type reissues. This change of mind has been interesting to watch. Looking at reviews of Sony mirrorless, reviewers are gushing over IBIS - its now "back in fashion". Something Pentax had all along. For low light, IBIS is really helpful, IMO. Part of the reviewer's enthusiasm probably is related to its use for video to be honest. For IBIS and other reasons, Sony is demanding and getting higher prices for its FF and lenses, than Cannikon are getting for their mid-range FF. This has got to be a disappointment for Nikon in particular, who seemed to want the FF premium camera niche all to themselves. Will IBIS help pave the way for good sales of Pentax FF. Very possibly when combined with low cost advantages of Pentax refreshed lenses. Remember that Pentax and Sony need to get only a fraction of Canikon's market share to turn a profit, while for Canikon, any dent in their large marketshare is a loss. Originally posted by Zygonyx Yeah, and it wasn't difficult for Sony to migrate IBIS tech. from Olympus after taking their shares... Just a reminder that the Sony A900 was the first larger sensor camera to sport IBS.

11-04-2015, 03:32 AM	#79
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Where are 645Z dxo numbers? Originally posted by clackers Exactly. I'm sure they'll come up with some excuse. I will have 3 contacts within the next couple of days, and try to figure up what is happening after that... maybe also ask them on their dedicated forum ?

11-04-2015, 08:07 AM	#80
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Zygonyx I will have 3 contacts within the next couple of days, and try to figure up what is happening after that... maybe also ask them on their dedicated forum ? It's taking long. No idea why.

11-04-2015, 08:25 AM	#81
davidsladek Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Surrey Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 346	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 It's taking long. No idea why. Redesigning the charts and indicators for 100+ pct?

11-04-2015, 08:29 AM	#82
Franc Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Hoevelaken Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,212	Originally posted by davidsladek Redesigning the charts and indicators for 100+ pct? it won't: Professional portrait and landscape photographers often use medium-format cameras because of their superb performance under controlled lighting conditions. However, as these cameras are definitely not designed for so-called “action photography” scenarios, they generally do not perform well with respect to DxO Labs’ Low-Light ISO metric. Because of this inherent low-light limitation, medium-format cameras do not receive top marks on the DxOMark Sensor Overall Score, even though they may show outstanding performance with respect to Color Depth or Dynamic Range.

11-04-2015, 08:33 AM	#83
eyeswideshut Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Hamburg Posts: 287	Originally posted by Franc it won't: Professional portrait and landscape photographers often use medium-format cameras because of their superb performance under controlled lighting conditions. However, as these cameras are definitely not designed for so-called “action photography” scenarios, they generally do not perform well with respect to DxO Labs’ Low-Light ISO metric. Because of this inherent low-light limitation, medium-format cameras do not receive top marks on the DxOMark Sensor Overall Score, even though they may show outstanding performance with respect to Color Depth or Dynamic Range. Might this not be alleviated with the new CMOS sensor?

11-04-2015, 08:55 AM	#84
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Franc it won't: Professional portrait and landscape photographers often use medium-format cameras because of their superb performance under controlled lighting conditions. However, as these cameras are definitely not designed for so-called “action photography” scenarios, they generally do not perform well with respect to DxO Labs’ Low-Light ISO metric. Because of this inherent low-light limitation, medium-format cameras do not receive top marks on the DxOMark Sensor Overall Score, even though they may show outstanding performance with respect to Color Depth or Dynamic Range. Actually low light performance is a huge part of DxO's rating and the 645z blows away all their favourite cameras in low light. And you call landscape photography "controlled light>" Well no, that's erroneous. You take a studio with no windows, and s few racks of lights on the ceiling and 20 or thirty movable light platforms around the edges, that is controlled light. Outside in the sunshine with various atmospheric effects, humidity, and the odd cloud from time to time, that is not controlled light. IN fact you have no control over the light. You take what you get. Landscape photographers love the 645z because of the incredible resolution and dynamic range. So, yes I would expect an evaluation of the 645z to exceed all other cameras, even in DxOs biased opinion, in everything but sports.

11-04-2015, 09:03 AM	#85
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by Franc it won't: Professional portrait and landscape photographers often use medium-format cameras because of their superb performance under controlled lighting conditions. However, as these cameras are definitely not designed for so-called “action photography” scenarios, they generally do not perform well with respect to DxO Labs’ Low-Light ISO metric. Because of this inherent low-light limitation, medium-format cameras do not receive top marks on the DxOMark Sensor Overall Score, even though they may show outstanding performance with respect to Color Depth or Dynamic Range. The problem in the past with the 645D was that it had a less than cutting edge CCD. 645Z has similar tech to D800, but with a larger sensor and therefore should have improvement in high iso score consistent with that. DXO Mark score is based on color depth, high iso score, and dynamic range (at low iso) and the 645Z should outperform current generation full frame cameras.

11-04-2015, 11:20 AM	#86
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Rondec The problem in the past with the 645D was that it had a less than cutting edge CCD. 645Z has similar tech to D800, but with a larger sensor and therefore should have improvement in high iso score consistent with that. DXO Mark score is based on color depth, high iso score, and dynamic range (at low iso) and the 645Z should outperform current generation full frame cameras. I don't know if this is True. The sensor may have been cutting edge, but being a ccd with limitations compared to todays cmos.

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11-04-2015, 11:42 AM	#87
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 I don't know if this is True. The sensor may have been cutting edge, but being a ccd with limitations compared to todays cmos. The 645Z has a CMOS sensor.

11-04-2015, 11:48 AM	#88
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 I don't know if this is True. The sensor may have been cutting edge, but being a ccd with limitations compared to todays cmos. 645z is CMOS. 645D is CCD. 645z is a Sony sensor made with current tech and it would make sense that it should test pretty well (if DXO Mark ever gets around to testing it).

11-04-2015, 11:55 AM	#89
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by clackers The 645Z has a CMOS sensor. Yep but Ron was talking about the 645D AFAICT.

11-04-2015, 01:21 PM	#90
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by thibs Yep but Ron was talking about the 645D AFAICT. But the 645D was already tested and it scored 82 with a high iso score of 1262. The question is whether there was much improvement with the 645z sensor versus current high end sensors.