Pentax K-1 (tentative) exhibited in Salon de la Photo from Paris

Scintilla · 11-08-2015, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by Class A

It would be great, if there were an "ISO shift" option for green button metering. I'd like to have the equivalent of TAv mode with the difference that ISO only changes upon explicit request.

I was just thinking about this possibility the other day, as I was wondering if I had any chance of catching birds in flight with my CZJ Sonnar, being (at 135mm) the longest lens I have. I think what I ended up deciding was that Av mode and adjusting the ISO in order to make the camera change the shutter speed was the closest I was going to get, but that's a really backwards way of doing things.

Of course, in the end it didn't even matter, as there wasn't a bird in the sky anyway.

Shanti · 11-08-2015, 07:47 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

So what if this is True. .........?

It is not totally impossible that the new K-1 doesn't sell in big numbers or that Ricoh Japan has no idea how many they actually could sell (maybe more then they think).

How does that work? I live in The Netherlands, wich is a relatie rich country, being number 7 on the list of income per capita https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_landen_naar_bbp_per_hoofd_van_de_bevolking And still having a sales market for Pentax.

Stores overhere are lowering in numbers over the past 10 years where large internet shops took over and mass sales is done by Media Markt that doesn't carry Pentax. Stores are members of a Central buying system. So Ricoh Tokyo makes a call to Ricoh Europe in Paris to see how this would work...... Paris calls the Dutch representative for Pentax to go and see how sales are to be expected. Stores don't have much stock anymore and they don't need it. You just push in an order during daytime if you run out of something and have it delivered the next day. For stuff that sells good you take stock and for thing like Pentax you take one item in stock or non at all. So the phone rings and positive response is coming in very soon. It looks great! Almost all major stores will take the K-1 in stock and so the Central buyers combination makes a decision and says........We take 50 of those nice new camera's!. A call is made to Paris and that goes back to Tokyo. Panic is in the Ricoh Offices in Tokyo......Since The Netherlands are only taking 50 camera's! We Are talking about the 7th richest country in the World with 17 million citizens. They have staf meetings....The K-1 is almost like finished. Call back to Paris, see if a major sales push can change that number. Oh yes, the K-1 will come in a nice box and twelve of them fit in the larger to be shipped box. Paris is calling Holland and tells him to make a good push in sales to see if everyone is really reached with the first round of sales. He does his job very good and calls around for two days. Steps in his car and visits some of the premium stores. Everyone is still very excited! He is happy! A Job well done. Makes a call to the Central buyers organisation and tells them about the big box that ships the camera's. Okay.......We see your point on our first order. Well no problem sir........We change our order in conveniënce for Ricoh Imaging and order 4 boxes, in total 48 K-1 camera's!.

Then they call Tokyo.........major sales push in The Netherlands changed the sales from K-1 down with 4 % to 48 units!

Then something Happens in Tokyo. They are about to get married, but get the Jibbers, ending up like the Runaway Bride. You really want to, but you are afraid of the big step. In the USA the Ricoh people really are afraid that this would be the end of all times. So they take the big step and just put the Ķ-1 on display in New York! That will bring back the people from Tokyo back to us!

So now we know why Pentax/Ricoh chose Kenspo..Norway is the 2nd richest land,therefore they will maybe order 240 new K1's(using your Dutch equation above

)
and that means Denmark(#5 on the list) will order 96

hmmm I plan to get one so just need to find 95 others here

Dave L · 11-08-2015, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by BrianL

I don't think the target market is into selfies!
Brian

I don't think a "selfie flip" is out of the question though - the top hinge doesn't appear to have a flip-stop. Even if not all the screen is visible it might still be useable for selfies, or more interesting applications though I'm struggling to think of any at the moment!

Zygonyx · 11-09-2015, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

How do you know it's a non working prototype and not a pre-production model?

Actually that is my assumption.
Given the low level of protection of this thing here in Paris (not even any video check targetted on the box, and FNAC was stolen there about 150 000 € worth gear during the night preceding the show), i can't imagine Ricoh Imaging Japan taking the risk of loosing a preproduction copy.
Also, no light to be seen through the VF or the lens.

Class A · 11-09-2015, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

Also, no light to be seen through the VF or the lens.

That may just confirm a statement made earlier that the viewfinder won't work unless the camera is turned on.

Not sure I'd like to be forced to turn the camera on for framing as I often don't take a shot after having examined what the image would look like. I think it is an advantage of OVFs over EVFs that they are "always on". However, I guess there will be some nice compensation for not being able to use the viewfinder when the camera is off. I doubt the engineers would have gone down this path, if that weren't the case.

Zygonyx · 11-09-2015, 04:24 AM

Yes, any 100% power-dependent VF would be quite deception making for me.

Asahiflex · 11-09-2015, 04:54 AM

Shouldn't the camera on display be a dummy camera with no guts inside? Then if it's stolen no secrets will be given away other than what's already visible on the outside.

Mistral75 · 11-09-2015, 05:54 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Asahiflex

Shouldn't the camera on display be a dummy camera with no guts inside? Then if it's stolen no secrets will be given away other than what's already visible on the outside.

Four months from now, any such secrets will be freely available from any Pentax retailer...

Not a Number · 11-09-2015, 09:05 AM

My money is on this being a non-working mockup. Although it is possible that there is a built-in eyepiece shutter. This has been done in the past on film bodies. Unless the release is integrated with the diopter adjustment dial I don't see a switch for this. Or maybe they used cheap plastic gears and one or more broke locking up the mirror as in the MZ cameras. If it were a working model I would imagine Ricoh would want to demonstrate that fact but not let the public handle the camera.

Mistral75 · 11-09-2015, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by Not a Number

My money is on this being a non-working mockup. Although it is possible that there is a built-in eyepiece shutter. This has been done in the past on film bodies. Unless the release is integrated with the diopter adjustment dial I don't see a switch for this. Or maybe they used cheap plastic gears and one or more broke locking up the mirror as in the MZ cameras. If it were a working model I would imagine Ricoh would want to demonstrate that fact but not let the public handle the camera.

It's a working sample, as confirmed by Ricoh Imaging France representatives at the Salon de la Photo.

Zygonyx · 11-09-2015, 11:50 AM

Humm... did you bring it home yet ?
Btw, do you think their answer could have been different ?

Mistral75 · 11-09-2015, 01:59 PM

No, I didn't bring it home but a friend of mine, a former Pentax part-time employee (during the Salons) was authorised, at the end of the Salon, to have a look at it outside of its glass prison.

And yes, they could have answered differently.

**RobA_Oz** · 11-09-2015, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by Not a Number

My money is on this being a non-working mockup. Although it is possible that there is a built-in eyepiece shutter. This has been done in the past on film bodies. Unless the release is integrated with the diopter adjustment dial I don't see a switch for this….

On my ESII and K2DMD it's on the shutter speed dial, but there's no indication of such on the displayed body, though I'd like to think that eyepiece blinds had made a comeback.

deus ursus · 11-09-2015, 04:14 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Not a Number

Are owners of M and K lenses screwed now by using the green button or DOF preview for stop down metering? Are owners of screwmount lenses screwed now for the same reasons?

Stop down metering is a working solution except for the whiners who complain about a few extra steps.

Be thankful Ricoh is supporting the K-mount at all and not abandoning it as Canon or Minolta did with the FD and MD mounts, respectively.

Those few extra steps are enough to screw up what could have been a great shot. I have a few of those, because I forgot to push the green button between two shots in changing light. Yes, it is a working solution, but it's also an inconvenience. For most of my shooting, I prefer controlling the aperture, and let the camera control the shutter. That's what I got accustomed to from shooting with my ME Super and my LX, and anyway what suits my style. I must admit that to me, having to control both aperture and shutter mostly is one factor too many to take into account to succeed with my shooting.

So when shooting with my M lenses I'd love to have nothing else to worry about than to adjust the aperture with the aperture ring, and the camera adjusted the shutter simultaneously, just like with the ME Super and the LX. Talking about the LX, maybe a workaround could be the same sort of lightmeter as the OTF meter? That way, the camera could adjust the shutter while it's open, and wouldn't have to know the aperture.

And oh! I'm sure you wouldn't be a whiner and complain about a few extra steps if you with a new body had to manually focus your FA lenses.

reh321 · 11-09-2015, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by deus ursus

Those few extra steps are enough to screw up what could have been a great shot. I have a few of those, because I forgot to push the green button between two shots in changing light. Yes, it is a working solution, but it's also an inconvenience. For most of my shooting, I prefer controlling the aperture, and let the camera control the shutter. That's what I got accustomed to from shooting with my ME Super and my LX, and anyway what suits my style. I must admit that to me, having to control both aperture and shutter mostly is one factor too many to take into account to succeed with my shooting.

So when shooting with my M lenses I'd love to have nothing else to worry about than to adjust the aperture with the aperture ring, and the camera adjusted the shutter simultaneously, just like with the ME Super and the LX. Talking about the LX, maybe a workaround could be the same sort of lightmeter as the OTF meter? That way, the camera could adjust the shutter while it's open, and wouldn't have to know the aperture.

And oh! I'm sure you wouldn't be a whiner and complain about a few extra steps if you with a new body had to manually focus your FA lenses.

Now that I understand the process, I understand why people complain. But, realistically, look at it from Ricoh's viewpoint. I bought my Super Program with its Pentax-A lens system over thirty-one years ago. My Pentax-M and Pentax-A short/standard primes are quite sharp (I don't have any zooms or long primes), but I seldom use even a Pentax-A lens; I have to expect that the vast majority of lenses in use do not have these problems.

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11-08-2015, 07:37 PM	#256
Scintilla Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 347	Originally posted by Class A It would be great, if there were an "ISO shift" option for green button metering. I'd like to have the equivalent of TAv mode with the difference that ISO only changes upon explicit request. I was just thinking about this possibility the other day, as I was wondering if I had any chance of catching birds in flight with my CZJ Sonnar, being (at 135mm) the longest lens I have. I think what I ended up deciding was that Av mode and adjusting the ISO in order to make the camera change the shutter speed was the closest I was going to get, but that's a really backwards way of doing things. Of course, in the end it didn't even matter, as there wasn't a bird in the sky anyway.

11-08-2015, 07:47 PM - 1 Like	#257
Shanti Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Western Denmark Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 927	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 So what if this is True. .........? It is not totally impossible that the new K-1 doesn't sell in big numbers or that Ricoh Japan has no idea how many they actually could sell (maybe more then they think). How does that work? I live in The Netherlands, wich is a relatie rich country, being number 7 on the list of income per capita https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_landen_naar_bbp_per_hoofd_van_de_bevolking And still having a sales market for Pentax. Stores overhere are lowering in numbers over the past 10 years where large internet shops took over and mass sales is done by Media Markt that doesn't carry Pentax. Stores are members of a Central buying system. So Ricoh Tokyo makes a call to Ricoh Europe in Paris to see how this would work...... Paris calls the Dutch representative for Pentax to go and see how sales are to be expected. Stores don't have much stock anymore and they don't need it. You just push in an order during daytime if you run out of something and have it delivered the next day. For stuff that sells good you take stock and for thing like Pentax you take one item in stock or non at all. So the phone rings and positive response is coming in very soon. It looks great! Almost all major stores will take the K-1 in stock and so the Central buyers combination makes a decision and says........We take 50 of those nice new camera's!. A call is made to Paris and that goes back to Tokyo. Panic is in the Ricoh Offices in Tokyo......Since The Netherlands are only taking 50 camera's! We Are talking about the 7th richest country in the World with 17 million citizens. They have staf meetings....The K-1 is almost like finished. Call back to Paris, see if a major sales push can change that number. Oh yes, the K-1 will come in a nice box and twelve of them fit in the larger to be shipped box. Paris is calling Holland and tells him to make a good push in sales to see if everyone is really reached with the first round of sales. He does his job very good and calls around for two days. Steps in his car and visits some of the premium stores. Everyone is still very excited! He is happy! A Job well done. Makes a call to the Central buyers organisation and tells them about the big box that ships the camera's. Okay.......We see your point on our first order. Well no problem sir........We change our order in conveniënce for Ricoh Imaging and order 4 boxes, in total 48 K-1 camera's!. Then they call Tokyo.........major sales push in The Netherlands changed the sales from K-1 down with 4 % to 48 units! Then something Happens in Tokyo. They are about to get married, but get the Jibbers, ending up like the Runaway Bride. You really want to, but you are afraid of the big step. In the USA the Ricoh people really are afraid that this would be the end of all times. So they take the big step and just put the Ķ-1 on display in New York! That will bring back the people from Tokyo back to us! So now we know why Pentax/Ricoh chose Kenspo..Norway is the 2nd richest land,therefore they will maybe order 240 new K1's(using your Dutch equation above ) and that means Denmark(#5 on the list) will order 96 hmmm I plan to get one so just need to find 95 others here

11-08-2015, 08:46 PM	#258
Dave L Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hampshire UK Posts: 306	Originally posted by BrianL I don't think the target market is into selfies! Brian I don't think a "selfie flip" is out of the question though - the top hinge doesn't appear to have a flip-stop. Even if not all the screen is visible it might still be useable for selfies, or more interesting applications though I'm struggling to think of any at the moment!

11-09-2015, 12:22 AM	#259
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033 Original Poster	Originally posted by D1N0 How do you know it's a non working prototype and not a pre-production model? Actually that is my assumption. Given the low level of protection of this thing here in Paris (not even any video check targetted on the box, and FNAC was stolen there about 150 000 € worth gear during the night preceding the show), i can't imagine Ricoh Imaging Japan taking the risk of loosing a preproduction copy. Also, no light to be seen through the VF or the lens.

11-09-2015, 01:12 AM	#260
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Zygonyx Also, no light to be seen through the VF or the lens. That may just confirm a statement made earlier that the viewfinder won't work unless the camera is turned on. Not sure I'd like to be forced to turn the camera on for framing as I often don't take a shot after having examined what the image would look like. I think it is an advantage of OVFs over EVFs that they are "always on". However, I guess there will be some nice compensation for not being able to use the viewfinder when the camera is off. I doubt the engineers would have gone down this path, if that weren't the case.

11-09-2015, 04:24 AM	#261
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033 Original Poster	Yes, any 100% power-dependent VF would be quite deception making for me.

11-09-2015, 04:54 AM	#262
Asahiflex Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,795	Shouldn't the camera on display be a dummy camera with no guts inside? Then if it's stolen no secrets will be given away other than what's already visible on the outside.

11-09-2015, 05:54 AM - 1 Like	#263
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by Asahiflex Shouldn't the camera on display be a dummy camera with no guts inside? Then if it's stolen no secrets will be given away other than what's already visible on the outside. Four months from now, any such secrets will be freely available from any Pentax retailer...

11-09-2015, 09:05 AM	#264
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	My money is on this being a non-working mockup. Although it is possible that there is a built-in eyepiece shutter. This has been done in the past on film bodies. Unless the release is integrated with the diopter adjustment dial I don't see a switch for this. Or maybe they used cheap plastic gears and one or more broke locking up the mirror as in the MZ cameras. If it were a working model I would imagine Ricoh would want to demonstrate that fact but not let the public handle the camera.

11-09-2015, 10:52 AM	#265
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by Not a Number My money is on this being a non-working mockup. Although it is possible that there is a built-in eyepiece shutter. This has been done in the past on film bodies. Unless the release is integrated with the diopter adjustment dial I don't see a switch for this. Or maybe they used cheap plastic gears and one or more broke locking up the mirror as in the MZ cameras. If it were a working model I would imagine Ricoh would want to demonstrate that fact but not let the public handle the camera. It's a working sample, as confirmed by Ricoh Imaging France representatives at the Salon de la Photo.

11-09-2015, 11:50 AM	#266
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033 Original Poster	Humm... did you bring it home yet ? Btw, do you think their answer could have been different ?

11-09-2015, 01:59 PM	#267
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	No, I didn't bring it home but a friend of mine, a former Pentax part-time employee (during the Salons) was authorised, at the end of the Salon, to have a look at it outside of its glass prison. And yes, they could have answered differently.

11-09-2015, 02:43 PM	#268
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	Originally posted by Not a Number My money is on this being a non-working mockup. Although it is possible that there is a built-in eyepiece shutter. This has been done in the past on film bodies. Unless the release is integrated with the diopter adjustment dial I don't see a switch for this…. On my ESII and K2DMD it's on the shutter speed dial, but there's no indication of such on the displayed body, though I'd like to think that eyepiece blinds had made a comeback.

11-09-2015, 04:14 PM - 1 Like	#269
deus ursus Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Stårheim, Norway Posts: 658	Originally posted by Not a Number Are owners of M and K lenses screwed now by using the green button or DOF preview for stop down metering? Are owners of screwmount lenses screwed now for the same reasons? Stop down metering is a working solution except for the whiners who complain about a few extra steps. Be thankful Ricoh is supporting the K-mount at all and not abandoning it as Canon or Minolta did with the FD and MD mounts, respectively. Those few extra steps are enough to screw up what could have been a great shot. I have a few of those, because I forgot to push the green button between two shots in changing light. Yes, it is a working solution, but it's also an inconvenience. For most of my shooting, I prefer controlling the aperture, and let the camera control the shutter. That's what I got accustomed to from shooting with my ME Super and my LX, and anyway what suits my style. I must admit that to me, having to control both aperture and shutter mostly is one factor too many to take into account to succeed with my shooting. So when shooting with my M lenses I'd love to have nothing else to worry about than to adjust the aperture with the aperture ring, and the camera adjusted the shutter simultaneously, just like with the ME Super and the LX. Talking about the LX, maybe a workaround could be the same sort of lightmeter as the OTF meter? That way, the camera could adjust the shutter while it's open, and wouldn't have to know the aperture. And oh! I'm sure you wouldn't be a whiner and complain about a few extra steps if you with a new body had to manually focus your FA lenses.

11-09-2015, 06:05 PM	#270
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by deus ursus Those few extra steps are enough to screw up what could have been a great shot. I have a few of those, because I forgot to push the green button between two shots in changing light. Yes, it is a working solution, but it's also an inconvenience. For most of my shooting, I prefer controlling the aperture, and let the camera control the shutter. That's what I got accustomed to from shooting with my ME Super and my LX, and anyway what suits my style. I must admit that to me, having to control both aperture and shutter mostly is one factor too many to take into account to succeed with my shooting. So when shooting with my M lenses I'd love to have nothing else to worry about than to adjust the aperture with the aperture ring, and the camera adjusted the shutter simultaneously, just like with the ME Super and the LX. Talking about the LX, maybe a workaround could be the same sort of lightmeter as the OTF meter? That way, the camera could adjust the shutter while it's open, and wouldn't have to know the aperture. And oh! I'm sure you wouldn't be a whiner and complain about a few extra steps if you with a new body had to manually focus your FA lenses. Now that I understand the process, I understand why people complain. But, realistically, look at it from Ricoh's viewpoint. I bought my Super Program with its Pentax-A lens system over thirty-one years ago. My Pentax-M and Pentax-A short/standard primes are quite sharp (I don't have any zooms or long primes), but I seldom use even a Pentax-A lens; I have to expect that the vast majority of lenses in use do not have these problems.